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Are all Jews "hardened in part" ?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by BABerean2, Nov 2, 2018.

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  1. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Are all modern Jews "partially hardened" to the truth of the Gospel, as some insist is found in Romans chapter 11?

    Or, are part hardened and part are not, as revealed by Romans 11:1-5?

    The thousands of modern Jews who are now coming to faith in the Jewish Messiah, have answered the question.

    Below is a brilliant scientist of Jewish background who came to faith in Christ.






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  2. Sam81

    Sam81 Touched by Jesus

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    I believe Acts is still in effect, therefore I have to agree that there is a special enmity between true believers and the Jewish people. Many but not all Jews have fought very hard to undermine Christian morality in Christian nations. It's not popular to say this because of the nazis (who were monsters). But it doesn't change the truth.

    There is one covenant. They are out. We are in. It's how God wanted it to be. But...He will graft in a remnant on the last day because He is faithful to His promise. Many Jews will join us.

    And many Jews are believers even today.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  3. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And, of course, Paul our Apostle to the Gentiles was a Jew. And Peter and other apostles were Jews, all who helped to start the ministry of the New Covenant.

    But there were Jews who opposed Jesus and Paul and Peter.
     
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  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    I cannot find your claim in the Bible.

    There is no Plan B of salvation on the last day, based on DNA.

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  5. Lulav

    Lulav Everyone will give an account Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    What part of Acts are you referring to?

    What is the enmity you are speaking of and where is it found in the bible? Are you speaking of all the atrocities against the Jewish people by 'well meaning' Christians?

    ??? And how do you believe they have done that?


    Jews have been targets of hate by Christians for centuries. This hasn't been done by any other group and it's all based on the accusation of them being Christ killers.

    Yes, made between G-d and his people and later renewed with the same.

    31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,“when I will make a new covenant
    with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
    32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors
    when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt,
    because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them, ”

    They? You mean the ones that G-d promised the new covenant to?

    Who is 'we'?

    Paul's answer to that "I ask then, did God reject His people? Absolutely not! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject His people, whom He foreknew."

    I think you have that backwards.

    "Thus says the L-RD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of every language of the nations, even shall take hold of the robe of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."

    Amein~!
     
  6. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Are all Jews "hardened in part" ?
    I would venture to say it was mainly those Jews living in and around Judea and Jerusalem, where the corrupt Jewish Rulers ruled from.

    The hardening and veil of Moses is removed for those who come to our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ.

    According to a concordance, there are 2 greek words used for "harden/hardened".
    Used only in 4 verses of the Gospels
    Mark [3] and John [1]

    Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon


    4456. poroo apparently from poros (a kind of stone);
    to petrify, i.e. (figuratively) to indurate (render stupid or callous):-- blind, harden.
    matches the Greek πωρόω (pōroō), which occurs 5 times in 5 verses
    4457.
    porosis po'-ro-sis from 4456;
    stupidity or callousness:--blindness, hardness.
    matches the Greek πώρωσις (pōrōsis), which occurs 3 times in 3 verses.

    Mark uses the word "wrath<3709>" in Mark 3, which is used in only 5 verses of the Gospels, 2 of those at John's baptism:

    I would guess the wrath Jesus is talking about is the one in 70ad?

    Matthew 3:7
    But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them,
    “Brood of vipers!
    Who warned<5263> ye to flee from the being about wrath<3709>?
    Mark 3:5
    And having looked round upon them with wrath<3709>, being grieved for the hardness of their heart, he saith to the man, 'Stretch forth thy hand;' and he stretched forth, and his hand was restored whole as the other;
    Luke 3:7
    Then said he to the multitudes coming forth to be baptised by him,
    'Brood of vipers!
    who did prompt<5263> ye to flee from the being about wrath<3709>?

    The rest of the verses that use #4456 and #4457

    Mark 6:52

    for they understood not concerning the loaves, for their heart hath been hardened.
    Mark 8:17
    And Jesus having known, saith to them, 'Why do ye reason, because ye have no loaves? do ye not yet perceive, nor understand, yet have ye your heart hardened?
    John 12:40
    'He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart, that they might not see with the eyes, and understand with the heart, and turn back, and I might heal them;'

    Romans 11:
    7 What then? What Israel doth seek after, this it did not obtain, and the chosen did obtain, and the rest were hardened,
    25 For I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, of this secret -- that ye may not be wise in your own conceits -- that hardness in part to Israel hath happened till the fulness of the nations may come in
    Ephesians 4:18
    being darkened in the understanding, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart,

    Then the veil of Moses and the OC is introduced:

    2 Corinthians 3:14
    14 but their minds were hardened,
    for unto this day the same veil<2571> at the reading of the Old Covenant doth remain unwithdrawn -- which in Christ is being made useless --

    G2571 matches the Greek κάλυμμα (kalymma),
    which occurs 4 times in 4 verses

    2 Corinthians 3:14

    13 and [are] not as Moses, who was putting a veil upon his own face, for the sons of Israel not stedfastly to look to the end of that which is being made useless,
    14 but their minds were hardened,
    for unto this day the same veil<2571> at the reading of the Old Covenant doth remain unwithdrawn -- which in Christ is being made useless --

    15 but till to-day, when Moses is read, a veil upon their heart doth lie,
    16 and whenever they may turn unto the Lord, the veil is taken away.

    Genesis 1:1 (YLT)
    602. apokalupsis from 601;
    disclosure:--appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.
    601. apokalupto from 575 and 2572; to take off the cover, i.e. disclose:--reveal.
    575. apo apo' a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative)
    2572. kalupto kal-oop'-to akin to 2813 and 2928; to cover up (literally or figuratively):--cover, hide.

    #602 used only 1 time in the Gospels, the rest in the Epistles and 1 time in Revelation

    Luke 2:32
    a Light to the uncovering<602> of Nations,
    and the glory of Thy people Israel.'

    Revelation 1:1
    An un-veiling/covering<602> of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him, to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass quickly; and he did signify it, having sent through his messenger to his servant John,


    2 Corinthians 3:

    15 but till to-day, when Moses is read, a veil upon their heart doth lie,
    16 and whenever they may turn unto the Lord, the veil is taken away.

    601. apokalupto from 575 and 2572;
    to take off the cover, i.e. disclose:--reveal.


    Matthew 11:25
    At that time Jesus answered and said,
    "I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth,
    because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent,
    and hast revealed G601 them unto babes.



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    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
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  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Are you saying the New Covenant is a "renewal" of the Sinai Covenant?

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  8. Sam81

    Sam81 Touched by Jesus

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    A Christian Jew is a brother in Christ period. But to say the antisemitism was all one sided is baloney. And besides, 99% of those who persecuted Jews were Christian in name only.
     
  9. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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  10. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    If the New Covenant is a "renewal" of the Sinai Covenant, the Apostle Paul was a very confused man.

    In 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, Paul contrasts "the ministry of death engraved on stones", to the ministry of the Spirit.

    In Galatians 4:24-31 Paul compels the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

    Although there is still argument over who wrote the Book of Hebrews, the author said we are not come to the mountain that burns with fire in Hebrews 12:18.
    This is clearly a reference to Mount Sinai.
    Instead, the author says we are come to Mount Sion, and the New Covenant in Hebrews 12:22-24.
    Once again we find a clear contrast between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant.

    Therefore, the New Covenant cannot be a "renewal" of the Sinai Covenant.


    Based on the words of Christ below, the New Covenant is a higher standard, not for our salvation, but for our conduct.

    Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
    Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

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  11. Doctor.Sphinx

    Doctor.Sphinx Well-Known Member

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    To believe this would surely require one believe that no modern Jews are saved? As we know many modern Jews believe in Jesus (e.g. Messianic Jews), it would be hard to argue *all* modern Jews are hardened to the gospel (whether partially or completely).
     
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