Archery,HAM radio, farming

wwjosh19

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I just came across this thread and found it very interesting and important.

Being a former Seventh Day Adventist, prophecies and the Book of Revelation has big influence in my life. I have a friend who is a total atheist, working for a big national mortgage company. I was so surprised we all come to the same end day scenario. What motivate him is non-spiritual, something to do with conspiracy theory "Rothschild" that I researched but do not quite understand. Seems kind of far fetched. He said something like the popularity of "urban living" is by design for easy crowd control. Make sense that, it is much easier for authoritarian control if mass of people living in a big NYC apt building than scattered rural farms. With the geopolitical changed so much and so fractured across the globe, it is kind of concerning. Jesus's parable of the 10 virgins (Matthew 25:1-13) are among many admonishment that Christians need to be very vigilant. Personally, I think it should mean both spiritually as well as taking steps to ensure our love ones are taken care of when the dark day arrive. I first have this foreboding of bad days ahead is in 1970s with book like " the great late planet earth" by Hal Lindsey and secular movies like "omen" that really scared me.

I believe if what is described in the Bible happen in our life time, it will be so unbearable. Like the story I shared with my kids the story of the "carefree grass hopper and the hard working ant", it is great we have this group to share and learn and encourage each other.

My area of interest is in archery that I think it is a fun sport as well as very practical survival tool to hunt for food. Amateur radio is essential and critical when conventional communication is down like in past natural disasters, ability to be self sufficient in living off the land is self explanatory.

I have little to no skill in all these areas that interest me. I want to be good at it. I do have a HAM license but never practice it. I like gardening, more like weekend brown thumb. I like to collectively share our interest, pray for each other and help each other grow in faith as well as knowledge in all different aspect of survival skills.

I just applied for a local CSA farm. CSA as Community Supported Agriculture" , as volunteer or part time. Please pray for me that I can somehow be part of the farm crew. I just do not know how this can happen as I still working full time, only weekend are open.

BTW: concerning news just keep popping up daily
- my ex shared with me what China is implementing about "social credits" that each citizen is given a "credit card" like score based on how well they obey the Government, civil/criminal offense records, giving to charity, bad habits etc.,
- across Europe like recent Italy election where populist won a lot of votes
- A town, I think south African, is running out of water.
- and some time ago, I heard of a company in Europe implant chips for easy daily administrative task like entering facility without badge

Thanks for this thread. Very informative.
 
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drjean

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You can scare yourself with the reality of the youtube video "Kill Cities by Rothschild and Rockefellar .

Ham radio is even easier these days...no code required licensing and more frequencies and provisions for chatting etc. I have a stack of the ARRL magazine QST I'd send you to if you wanted them, I'm about to pitch them all (moving.)

Archery. I made myself a bow and arrow set when I was a child. Lots of trees on the property but can't recall which one made the best. lol I hadn't thought about it for prepping because all I thought was the high strung ones and I'm not strong enough. I used to have a professional slingshot, but alas I became too weak to pull it (BUT I AM GOOD AT BOTH, especially moving targets!)

There's a guy (don't know why the government or water companies haven't killed him off yet) who invented a machine that runs on very little diesel and it pulls the water from the air... took it to Haiti last year???

Head in some direction... as long as you're moving in some direction you're easier for God to direct you to where HE wants you to go. (We're difficult when sitting still! Free will and all that, you know? ;) )
 
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Bee_in_the_Light

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I would like to hear more about your reasoning on archery being a necessary survival skill. I agree it is a good as a hobby and for many people a fun way to hunt. But I don't see it as a good substitute for a firearm.

Bow and arrow compared to rifles and shotguns:

- very short range, making it a very hard weapon to hunt with. Even experienced archers say they often spend the whole day without getting a single shot. I think in a "SHTF" scenario you should use every mean available to improve your productivity.

- Poor accuracy. Again, making it bad for hunting and for self-defense.

- low rate of fire, most likely low amount of ammunition. Again, bad for hunting and self-defense.

The only positive side for bow and arrow is that it is silent. While this is always good, and invaluable in some situations, I wouldn't see it as that big a factor. First, there is going to be a lot of hunters with firearms everywhere, if the "SHTF". You would be competing with these people for the game. I believe most game animals would be hunted to practical extinction within a relatively short period of time. So hunting is not something I see as a long term solution. This probably depends on location, though (population density). Second, you will run into other people, if you roam the woods. At that point, you will want a semi automatic rifle instead of a bow and arrow. You can hope that you will be the first one to notice the other party, but that's really up to luck. Third, in a "SHTF" scenario, I don't think people ("bad" or "good") will be drawn to gunfire. More likely, you'll make sure to stay away.

If things are for the "long-term", then learning to shoot with bow and arrow might become essential. But if you have decent firearms and a good stack of ammunition, you'll have plenty of time to practice.
 
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wwjosh19

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I would like to hear more about your reasoning on archery being a necessary survival skill.
I think it is more like spread the eggs in different baskets, explore and be familiar with different tools and technology. One thing I find bow/arrow's primitive nature is also a plus because, unlike firearms, it requires little maintenance and the arrows can be re-use. I talked to a local hunter yesterday who said with a compound bow, you can bag a deer up to 40 yard with 60 lb pull weight (he explained that the archer, because of the mechanic (wheels and pulley) of the bow, only need to exert 20 lb. With sight and other aiming tool, it can be a good survival it one know how to handle the bow. For now, it is more fun and game to learn archery. I incline to learn with the traditional recurve bow (like the robin hood type).

When the dark day come, there will be many desperate people looking for provision. Only safe place probably far from the civilization, have a piece of land to grow things supplement with small games, and clean and plentiful water source.

There is a local farm that I want to help out. Unfortunately being full time employed, hard to fit into their farm schedule. But I intend to get acquainted with the folks there. Living off the land is one practical way to survive, as long as the raiders in those dark time will not overtaken you and take all your food.

Must be nice to live in Finland. It came across to me that northern Europe, being farer away from the trouble spots of the world, must be a lot more peaceful. That may be a good place to live when the world fall apart.
 
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wwjosh19

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Ham radio is even easier these days...no code required licensing and more frequencies and provisions for chatting etc.

I need to get back to HAM. I am HAM in name only, after I received my technician class license in 1999, got a fancy VHF/UHF radio, I hardly use it. I heard about the software based radio that I want to research more.

Head in some direction... as long as you're moving in some direction you're easier for God to direct you to where HE wants you to go. (We're difficult when sitting still! Free will and all that, you know? ;)

Group like this is very helpful to enlighten and educate each other. One day may be it is bro/sis helping bro /sis to survive the dark days.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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My son bought us two hand held short wave radios. We have not gone for the licenses yet but really want to.
I have a smaller hand held cross bow with 8 inch bolts. Lost of fun. Probably not going kill much with it. Maybe a rabbit or squrrell if i hit it just right. I would not want to just wound the little thing and have it run around bleeding in pain for hours.
 
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Bee_in_the_Light

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My son bought us two hand held short wave radios. We have not gone for the licenses yet but really want to.
I have a smaller hand held cross bow with 8 inch bolts. Lost of fun. Probably not going kill much with it. Maybe a rabbit or squrrell if i hit it just right. I would not want to just wound the little thing and have it run around bleeding in pain for hours.

Crossbow was the standard weapon for squirrel hunting before firearms. The ammunition used was blunt instead of piercing, as a squirrel has little other than its fur to offer. They were extremely important, however. The Finnish word for money, "raha", originally meant dried squirrel fur. A single squirrel fur was worth the equivalent of up to 500 euros (!) in today's money.

However, you probably need a spitz or other barking dog to keep the squirrel in place, if you want to hunt it with a crossbow. The Finnish Spitz was bred thousands of years ago, exactly for this purpose.
 
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Bee_in_the_Light

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I talked to a local hunter yesterday who said with a compound bow, you can bag a deer up to 40 yard with 60 lb pull weight (he explained that the archer, because of the mechanic (wheels and pulley) of the bow, only need to exert 20 lb. With sight and other aiming tool, it can be a good survival it one know how to handle the bow. For now, it is more fun and game to learn archery. I incline to learn with the traditional recurve bow (like the robin hood type).

This is exactly the problem with a bow. A semi automatic rifle with open scopes can hit a deer sized (standing) animal from ~4-5 times the distance with 100% accuracy. A skilled marksman with sniper rifle should be able to hit a deer with 100% accuracy at least from 500 yards.

I would like to learn bow hunting myself, as there are some beavers I want to get rid of in my forest. But as a preparing measure, I would stack more and more ammunition instead of arrows for my bow.

When the dark day come, there will be many desperate people looking for provision. Only safe place probably far from the civilization, have a piece of land to grow things supplement with small games, and clean and plentiful water source.

Here are some statistics of Finland, which is by percentage of land area, the world's most forested "western" country.

- There are 1,5 million registered guns
- There are 300 000 registered hunters (registering is mandatory)
- There are less than 100 000 moose living in Finland

All large game animals will be practically extinct within weeks of a "SHTF" scenario. It can be supplementary, but do not rely on hunting. My wife comes from a small town with huge forest and lake areas near the Russian border. Even though the population density there is very small (just 1,8 people per square kilometer!), it is estimated this area sustained just little over 1% of the current population during the hunter-gatherer era!

Surviving comes down to being able to grow lots and lots of food.

Must be nice to live in Finland. It came across to me that northern Europe, being farer away from the trouble spots of the world, must be a lot more peaceful. That may be a good place to live when the world fall apart.

There is a good reason, why there's so little people living up here... ;) I would definitely trade the inhospitable climate to having more people around. Last summer crops failed in many parts of Finland, with average of 15-20% of grain left unharvested. In many areas more than 30% of crops failed. In a SHTF scenario this would be a disaster. In the late 1600's and 1860's we had several years in a row with almost complete loss of crops. People starved to death in huge numbers. SHTF was reality back then.

The summer holiday still begins in all schools with "Suvivirsi" (summer hymn), a hymn commemorating the end of great famine years of 1600's.

I think the two biggest positive sides of Finland are the homogeneous, trust based society (I would expect almost everyone to work together to get things right, not start looting and killing their neighbors), and the fact that ~80% of adult Finnish men have military training, meaning they are familiar with, and used to working in a hierarchical chain-of-command organization in crisis time.

This kind of psychological capital is the key to survival in a crisis. Building more of that capital should in my opinion be one of the biggest priorities to prepping Christians. Even the pagans are capable of taking care of their own.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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This is exactly the problem with a bow. A semi automatic rifle with open scopes can hit a deer sized (standing) animal from ~4-5 times the distance with 100% accuracy. A skilled marksman with sniper rifle should be able to hit a deer with 100% accuracy at least from 500 yards.

I would like to learn bow hunting myself, as there are some beavers I want to get rid of in my forest. But as a preparing measure, I would stack more and more ammunition instead of arrows for my bow.



Here are some statistics of Finland, which is by percentage of land area, the world's most forested "western" country.

- There are 1,5 million registered guns
- There are 300 000 registered hunters (registering is mandatory)
- There are less than 100 000 moose living in Finland

All large game animals will be practically extinct within weeks of a "SHTF" scenario. It can be supplementary, but do not rely on hunting. My wife comes from a small town with huge forest and lake areas near the Russian border. Even though the population density there is very small (just 1,8 people per square kilometer!), it is estimated this area sustained just little over 1% of the current population during the hunter-gatherer era!

Surviving comes down to being able to grow lots and lots of food.



There is a good reason, why there's so little people living up here... ;) I would definitely trade the inhospitable climate to having more people around. Last summer crops failed in many parts of Finland, with average of 15-20% of grain left unharvested. In many areas more than 30% of crops failed. In a SHTF scenario this would be a disaster. In the late 1600's and 1860's we had several years in a row with almost complete loss of crops. People starved to death in huge numbers. SHTF was reality back then.

The summer holiday still begins in all schools with "Suvivirsi" (summer hymn), a hymn commemorating the end of great famine years of 1600's.

I think the two biggest positive sides of Finland are the homogeneous, trust based society (I would expect almost everyone to work together to get things right, not start looting and killing their neighbors), and the fact that ~80% of adult Finnish men have military training, meaning they are familiar with, and used to working in a hierarchical chain-of-command organization in crisis time.

This kind of psychological capital is the key to survival in a crisis. Building more of that capital should in my opinion be one of the biggest priorities to prepping Christians. Even the pagans are capable of taking care of their own.
In the states this will be the problem:
"All large game animals will be practically extinct within weeks of a "SHTF" scenario."
30 million hunters all hitting the woods. Deer will be gone in a matter of months.Then they will finally do something about those mutant Russian Hybrid hogs.
 
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wwjosh19

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I think the two biggest positive sides of Finland are the homogeneous, trust based society (I would expect almost everyone to work together to get things right, not start looting and killing their neighbors), and the fact that ~80% of adult Finnish men have military training, meaning they are familiar with, and used to working in a hierarchical chain-of-command organization in crisis time.

This will more than offset the inhospitable and farm adverse climate in country like Finland - because the nation survive as one, not individual effort. Geographically, it is far from the powder keg like middle east. The large forest will provide plenty of little games. Big deers/moose may be gone, but little animal will always be around. How about fishing, bet there are plenty of seafood to go around. In the contrary, here is USA, the whole society is quite fractured. it is not a melting pot like one use to say, more like a salad bowl, every ethnic group retain its own enclave and culture. The racial issue, political issues and cultural issue are too divisive to survive any big catastrophe. I would think, to prepare of the dark day, best chance is for small community to stick together, share provision, skills and talents and fortify their neighbors, and unlike the 1800's the wild west fort like structure.

I was in Helsinki last year in March for my daughter's internship. Very snowy, did not go around much, except downtown. Food was not that exciting, we end up ordering pseudo Thai food to go, Pasta dinner in the vapiano near city center was one of the best meal, and I forgot the name near there, a Nepal/Indian restaurant. One thing I notice is there are lots of beauty salon, almost one every block. I love the old apartment with tiny little elevator. I love Europe, people are more frugal and manage resources better.

BTW: After research the archery a bit, I settled on the Samick Polaris package for <$200.
Samick Polaris Bow
Down side is I do not have too many open space to shoot arrow. Have to drive 30 min to a archery range.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Many years ago I remember when visiting my Grandparents in a small town of about 5,000. There was a nearby shared lot, a, "Victory Garden" used by the whole neighborhood just around the corner. It was where the whole neighborhood pitched in and grew food there for their own personal use. I plant as much as I can on my tiny lot for both health and security reasons.
I think that would be a very workable solution for future community farming. A good sized garden or collection of gardens could conceivably provide enough food for a town of several thousand people.
 
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Bee_in_the_Light

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A hectare of wheat produces enough food for ~10 people. For a thousand people you would need at least 100 fertilized hectares. That is one square kilometer, a square of 1000 x 1000 meters (1093 x 1093 yards). If you don't have fertilizers and plan to do this for years, you need probably twice the area or yields will fall.

For any decent sized community based survival, a farm is a must. 100 hectares is not a big farm, something a single or two farmers can easily handle if they have a tractor and a combined harvester. But still, trying to achieve same amount of food production without a mechanized farm would be massive investment of time and labor.

Obviously, wheat is mostly just energy. It doesn't provide good nutritional value outside of energy. Sources of protein are needed, as well as vitamins and other necessities. So growing vegetables and other gardening products will be necessary, but in itself most likely insufficient.

Which brings me to my actual point: I believe animal husbandry will be one of the most essential skills in this kind of situation. Growing plants is something most of us learn very fast. Learning to take care of animals takes much more knowledge and getting used to. You would have to be able to help them deliver, as well as diagnose diseases and heal wounds. Veterinarian would be a good profession to own then.

On small scale, I believe goats and poultry are the best, maybe cows and stuff if you have more people.
 
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wwjosh19

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Here are some statistics of Finland, which is by percentage of land area, the world's most forested "western" country.
One more statistics for Finalnd, I just read that Finland was voted the happiest country in the world, followed by other Nordics - Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Switzerland, Netherland, Canada, New Zealandm Sweden and Australia. USA ranked 18th.
Finland 'world's happiest place' in 2018
Defintely a choice place to live when bad things happen to the world.
 
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drjean

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With Hurricane Michael having hit the panhandle... I wonder about the members who post here who said they never get one... and pray they evacuated.

They are, of course, needing help with communications in the area... I am in South Florida and think by the time I would get up there and be allowed in, that will be solved... but if you are reading this and are nearby and a HAM please go help with H&W messages.
 
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Archery is great. I love it. But it is not something you pick up and just do. Furthermore, if you want the best accuracy for the least amount of work, just get a crossbow. However, if you want to just get some meat, it is best to use a gun... even better, raise it yourself.

I know it is romantic to think of using a recurve or long bow to hunt. The truth is that very, very few will be successful at this. The compound bow was a boon for archery because it is easy to hold in the ready position. If you are serious about archery, go to a local archery shop and spend $100 on lessons. It will be well worth your while. I took lessons from professionals when I started and it was game changing. The things they see in how you hold the bow make a huge difference in accuracy. This is not something you get from a book.

Now that being said, there is way more to self reliant hunting than just capturing the meat. Butchering and preservation skills are a must. I once watched a movie based on a true story where a guy was surviving in the Alaskan bush. He killed a moose and was overjoyed. The man still starved to death.... And for good reason. He had no way to quickly preserve the meat.

...Think about this.

I have butchered a lot of animals and I still find it challenging (not overwhelming, but exhausting). If you do not know how to butcher animals, pressure can or dry the meat, etc, it will not matter much. Unfortunately, in the situation you worry about, most people will kill more than they can eat and then it will spoil before they can take advantage of it.

So my advice would be to focus on trapping. In a world of hunters, you will not see a deer. But you will still see rabbits. Learn how to make traps and how to handle small game. That is a much more important survival skill than bow hunting big game.

P.S. From a sportsman standpoint... Nothing beats bowhunting large animals for the pure adrenaline factor (and the meat tastes great).
 
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I agree to be consistently successful at anything ones needs to practice. But I also think that even a makeshift bow and arrows (out of hard but bendable small limbs) is good enough for small game like rabbits... just like practicing throwing a knife ( into the dirt???? :O ) makes one better at it...so would using such a device.

I couldn't possible consider killing a large animal...even with my firearms... because I have no way to dress it or pack it or keep it or anything! And what is good for the rabbits is I'm now allergic to them. ROFL
 
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SavedByGrace3

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I know I am a wimp about such things... but I doubt a I am good enough with a bow to be able to quick kill a larger animal such as a deer. I would hate to just wound it and have it suffer for two or three days before it bleeds out. OTOH in a stuff hits the fan situation it would be imperative to stay hidden and a 12 gauge with a slug makes way to much noise. Every marauder in the county would be heading our way. The only solution is to get better with the bow... or use traps of some sort. I do have a small crossbow... but have not practiced with it much.
I wish I had your skills peeps.
 
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