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Archbishop of Canterbury baffled by Christians who back Trump

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Go Braves, Dec 5, 2017.

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  1. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Anglicans are far more serious Christians, that's why. Even the otherwise conservative Christian members here on the forum over in Europe, don't seem to approve of Trump.

    What passes for Christianity in the US is often little more than entertainment, conservative petit bourgeois morality, and nationalism. We are very "religious" in all the wrong ways.
     
  2. Saucy

    Saucy Fear is faith in the enemy. Supporter

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    Ah yes. If you're a Trump supporter, you're not as serious about your faith as non-supporters. I'm glad you have us all pegged and can judge our faith so easily.
     
  3. Go Braves

    Go Braves Merry Christmas

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    1. Saucy, I'm not goading you by rating your post, but I'm sorry you're triggered by prayers.

    2. I realize this simply hasn't occurred to you, but there are plenty of folks who do think that what he said matters. Now, you not being one of those folks means you ought to have just moseyed along to another thread. Instead, by continuing to make a little stink about how much you don't care, you're showing that you do care.
     
  4. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think Trump supporters are serious to a certain extent, but not as serious as they could be. And serious about the wrong things, the less weighty matters.

    I'm talking about penitence and doing serious moral inventories. Few American churches encourage that beyond the most superficial level, and it usually only has to do with smoking, drinking, cussing, and where you put your genitals. That's inadequate and dangerous. What's worse are their shepherds do not do this, either.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  5. Saucy

    Saucy Fear is faith in the enemy. Supporter

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    1) Rating my post prayers is not praying. You're not praying for me when you hit it. You're goading me.
    2) Yeah, I'm sure there are plenty who do. Are they the only ones who matter in this thread? I'm not making a stink by replying a thread. I'm just proving a counter argument, which is fine. It's not like I make a habit of PMing people to ask them to stay out of my threads when I don't agree with them.
     
  6. Go Braves

    Go Braves Merry Christmas

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    Well Saucy, you not caring what the rest of the world thinks about Trump & the United States is irrelevant. It matters, & you can just sit there and say you don't care that it does as much as it pleases yourself, but it won't change that fact.

    I want to stay on topic so I'm not going to take the time to refute you on the rest of your post. Please stay on topic of the thread or get out of it.
     
  7. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "I don't care" is the ultimate bastion of imploding narcissism, to lash out at the world by denying its significance.
     
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  8. Go Braves

    Go Braves Merry Christmas

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    1. Well unless folks have prayed for you, Saucy.
    2. You haven't provided any counter argument. I'm not in the habit of PM'ing people asking people to stay out of my threads when I don't agree with them, either. How weird that you wrote that. I am asking that if you want to post in a thread, you contribute to it. Which is pretty dang reasonable.
     
  9. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If I listened to the average American evangelical here on the forum, I'd have to conclude as long as I don't sleep around or have gay sex, don't listen to the wrong music, don't criticize the government, ... I've pretty much earned my place in God's good graces. Anything else I'm free to do practically.

    That is an inadequate understanding of Christian freedom. It's narcissistic. It could lead you straight to hell. You might as well be an atheist if that's what you think being a Christian means. They'll stand a better chance finding a gracious God on the day of judgment. At least the atheist didn't pretend to be holy.
     
  10. Saucy

    Saucy Fear is faith in the enemy. Supporter

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    I am contributing to it, but you don't like what I'm saying, so you've already told me to leave. But thankfully, you're not in charge around here or what I post. Everything I've said fits with the OP and YOU'RE the one derailing because you don't like what I said. I simply don't care that you don't like it. And no, it doesn't matter one bit if the world likes Trump or doesn't. There are always a wide variety of world leaders who come and go. We like some, we don't like others. It's not a big deal that someone in Australia doesn't like Trump. Why should I care? Or what some bishop in England thinks? Or the pope?

    I see this more and more around here. You guys can keep questioning people's faith all you want to, but it makes you no better. You do not have the moral high ground because you didn't support Trump, so please stop pretending like you do.
     
  11. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    Saucy - I'm sure you can be saved otherwise I wouldn't bother (in my case 'saved' means open to more rational thinking - not necessarily Godliness) but you need to stop shooting from the hip.

    You come across as flippant, lightweight, thoughtless and a little thin skinned; but I can see a more thoughtful person under that trivial exterior. You need to actually read what is written otherwise you're responding to issues which just aren't real. This has happened several times in this thread.

    With a little practice stopping and thinking I'm sure you could put arrogant atheists like me back in my box. :rolleyes:
    OB
     
  12. mina

    mina Brown Eyed girl

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    I am quite baffled myself. I was listening to a conversation over the Thanksgiving holidays about CHIP and the general attitude this person seemed to have (as a professing Christian and staunch backer of Trump) is that if kids need it and are sick and dying it's okay to not renew because if they are dying and poor, they "had better do it and decrease the surplus population". I can halfway understand the argument that you don't want to be forced to give to charities (I don't agree with it, but I can understand it), but the coldness and callousness which is so unChristlike is baffling (and repulsive) to me. Like you want little kids to potentially die (or have a lower quality of life) for political idealologies while stressing it's a Christian nation all so you don't have to end up giving 83cents towards helping them because they were born poor? And this person went on to say that Trump is the only hope for America and that America will never be a great nation if we didn't have Trump. It was very savior , 2nd coming, human deity complex and I don't think all Trump backers are like that, but many are and it's quite baffling to me. I can't reconcile my Christian faith with supporting him, so I don't and haven't. I also think that America is great for certain things irregardless of it's leader and I have faith that there can be really great leaders in the future (Trump is not the alpha and omega; and I don't think of him as a great leader).
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  13. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    I don't care either! LOL

    (couldn't resist)
     
  14. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter Recovery Team

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    One thing that might be worth understanding about the Archbishop of Canterbury, in this discussion, is that he's not just a church leader.

    The Archbishop of Canterbury sits in the House of Lords (the English upper house of parliament) and has the right to speak and vote in that House. He is, in fact, part of the English government as well as the notional head of the global Anglican Communion.

    So when he speaks, you're not just hearing the reflections of a spiritual leader (though he is that), you're also hearing the reflections of someone involved in foreign government policy.

    In that context, while Americans might think he's wrong, or insensitive to their position, or whatever, it's probably worth paying attention to what he's saying, because it will give you insight into the level of understanding and engagement of a member of government of a key ally.
     
  15. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Mina, that attitude is chilling.

    One thing me and my pastor talked about is how a twisted version of the Reformed faith seems to influence people to lose all sense of compassion for the poor and the unfortunate. There's this idea that somehow the poor and unfortunate deserve their fate, and therefore we have no obligations to them. I can see how a Christian would take that attitude based on a twisted theology.

    BTW, I'm pretty sure my pastor is a Republican. But he is also a Christian, and a Lutheran. Our faith tends to emphasize social solidarity and reciprocal obligations implicitly. Someone who exhibits as much narcissism as Trump suffers from homo incurvatus in se, as Luther would put it. He is the ultimate failure as a human being, in that regard, no matter how much money he has, he is a loser.
     
  16. Par5

    Par5 Well-Known Member

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    Justin Welby, like any individual, is entitled to give his opinion of Trump and I for one would not entirely disagree with his opinion in this case, but I do disagree with him as an archbishop, along with 25 other Anglian clerics in the House of Lords, having a say in the legislative procedure of the UK government. They are religious clerics and as such have never been elected into political office so I see no reason why they should have a say in running the country. I would have thought they would be more concerned about reversing the trend of the ever-increasing number of empty pews in their churches.
    In fact, I would abolish the House of Lords period. It is full of ex Lower House politicians who are past their sell-by date and who have been sent to the Upper House to see out their days.
     
  17. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter Recovery Team

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    I actually agree with you about Establishment; it's never really worked and for a pluralist society like the U.K. is today I don't think it's a good system.

    But I thought it worth explaining to our American friends on here, because they might well not have appreciated that aspect of his role as it currently functions.
     
  18. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    I agree that the House of Lords is an anachronism which should be replaced with a more democratic Upper House.

    Unfortunately you have confused "what is' with "what ought to be". Like it or not, the 'Lords' is a part of the British Parliamentary system and it's collective view of Trump is significant.
    OB
     
  19. Liza B.

    Liza B. His grace is sufficient Supporter

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  20. Liza B.

    Liza B. His grace is sufficient Supporter

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    A good portion of the world loves to beat up on America no matter what we do. I have understood this for a very long time.

    So that "the world" hates Trump makes me bat not one little eyelash. A great number of us do not care what foreigners think about Trump, and do not understand why we should.
     
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