Apostolicty and Apostolic Succession

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Perceivence

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Heya again OBOB! :wave:

I've yet another set of questions about Catholics. I"ve read a bit about these two on newadvent.org...enough to know that there's a distinction between Apostolicty and Apostolic Succession. However, I'm not too sure what they are, so pardon me if I use the terms incorrectly.

1. Are they taught in the Biblie?
2. Who taught them in the Early Church? When did they teach them and why?
3. What is Apostolicity's purpose?
4. Why is Apostolicity important?
5. Is it possible that they were advisable or required before but not necessary or advisable now?
6. What do Catholics believe is transmitted? Authority? The Holy Spirit? Salvation? Good doctrine? All of the above? None of the above?

Thanks in advance. :)
 

Paul S

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Yes, they are taught in the Bible. We see apostolic succession in Acts when the Apostles pick Matthias to replace Judas. We know that Jesus's Church is apostolic because it was the Apostles he sent out to teach, and the Apostles were the ones who received the Holy Ghost, and whenever there is a disagreement, everyone looks to Peter and the Apostles to resolve it.

It's important because it's how we know that the Church maintains the doctrine taught by Jesus to His Apostles.
 
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Spence06

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Really Quick cause I have to run, but when reading one day I came across this verse in 1 Tim. 4 that seems to support the idea of the Sacrament of Holy Orders.


1 Tim 4:14
Do not neglect the gift you have, which was conferred on you through the prophetic word with the imposition of hands of the presbyterate.
 
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ps139

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Perceivence said:
Heya again OBOB! :wave:

I've yet another set of questions about Catholics. I"ve read a bit about these two on newadvent.org...enough to know that there's a distinction between Apostolicty and Apostolic Succession. However, I'm not too sure what they are, so pardon me if I use the terms incorrectly.

1. Are they taught in the Biblie?
Hi Perceivence! :)

It seems what you are asking about is what we call Holy Orders, or Ordination. In the Bible this is often called "laying of the hands." In every ordination of a priest, the bishop will effect the sacrament of ordination through this means.

See Acts 6:2-7
Basically, the scenario is that the apostles needed more priests, as so many Jews and Greeks were converting to Christ and needed to be ministered to.
"So the Twelve gathered all of the disciples together and said, 'It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables. Brothers, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.' The proposal pleased the whole group/ They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism. They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed over them and laid their hands on them. So the word of god spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith."

Acts also records Paul's ordination. See Acts 9:18-18
"Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, 'Brother Saul, the Lord - Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here - has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.' Immediately, the scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized."

Acts 13:3 records the ordinations of Barnabas and Saul, in which they were ordained via laying of the hands and sent off to minister.

Paul writes of Timothy's ordination in 1 Tim 4:14
"Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of priests laid their hands on you."

Later, in 1 Tim 5:22 Paul warns Timothy to be very careful and discerning in choosing who to ordain. "Do not be hasty in laying on of hands" If the laying on of hands did not confer a graces and authority, Paul would never have made such an exhortation.

In 2 Tim. 2:2 Paul explains that God's intention is to transfer authority to successors (here, Paul to Timothy to 3rd to 4th generation). It goes beyond the death of the apostles.

2. Who taught them in the Early Church? When did they teach them and why?
These passages from the Church Fathers may be of help:

And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first-fruits [of their labours], having first proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe. Nor was this any new thing, since indeed many ages before it was written concerning bishops and deacons. For thus saith the Scripture a certain place, 'I will appoint their bishops in righteousness, and their deacons in faith.'... Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry...For our sin will not be small, if we eject from the episcopate those who have blamelessly and holily fulfilled its duties.

-Pope Clement, Epistle to Corinthians, 42, 44 (A.D. 98).


For what is the bishop but one who beyond all others possesses all power and authority, so far as it is possible for a man to possess it, who according to his ability has been made an imitator of the Christ of God? And what is the presbytery but a sacred assembly, the counselors and assessors of the bishop? And what are the deacons but imitators of the angelic powers, fulfilling a pure and blameless ministry unto him, as…Anencletus and Clement to Peter?
- Ignatius, To the Trallians, 7 (A.D. 110).

True knowledge is [that which consists in] the doctrine of the apostles, and the ancient constitution of the Church throughout all the world, and the distinctive manifestation of the body of Christ according to the successions of the bishops, by which they have handed down that Church which exists in every place, and has come even unto us, being guarded and preserved without any forging of Scriptures, by a very complete system of doctrine, and neither receiving addition nor [suffering] curtailment [in the truths which she believes]; and [it consists in] reading [the word of God] without falsification, and a lawful and diligent exposition in harmony with the Scriptures, both without danger and without blasphemy; and [above all, it consists in] the pre-eminent gift of love, which is more precious than knowledge, more glorious than prophecy, and which excels all the other gifts [of God].
-Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4:33:8 (A.D. 180).

But if there be any (heresies) which are bold enough to plant themselves in the midst Of the apostolic age, that they may thereby seem to have been handed down by the apostles, because they existed in the time of the apostles, we can say: Let them produce the original records of their churches; let them unfold the roll of their bishops, running down in due succession from the beginning in such a manner that [that first bishop of theirs] bishop shall be able to show for his ordainer and predecessor some one of the apostles or of apostolic men,--a man, moreover, who continued steadfast with the apostles. …To this test, therefore will they be submitted for proof by those churches, who, although they derive not their founder from apostles or apostolic men (as being of much later date, for they are in fact being founded daily), yet, since they agree in the same faith, they are accounted as not less apostolic because they are akin in doctrine…Then let all the heresies, when challenged to these two tests by our apostolic church, offer their proof of how they deem themselves to be apostolic. But in truth they neither are so, nor are they able to prove themselves to be what they are not. Nor are they admitted to peaceful relations and communion by such churches as are in any way connected with apostles, inasmuch as they are in no sense themselves apostolic because of their diversity as to the mysteries of the faith.
-Tertullian, Prescription against the Heretics, 33 (A.D. 200).

There is a lot more where that came from but I did not want to make the post too long! :)

God bless you!
 
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Irenaeus

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Perceivence,

Just wanted to drop in and say "Hello!"

I hope I helped you with your question on Augustine and the true Presence with the Fathers, previously.

I think most of these fine people will be able to help you, but I wanted to say, "Hello!"

...and Welcome Back!

:wave:
 
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thereselittleflower

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Perceivence said:
Heya again OBOB! :wave:

I've yet another set of questions about Catholics. I"ve read a bit about these two on newadvent.org...enough to know that there's a distinction between Apostolicty and Apostolic Succession. However, I'm not too sure what they are, so pardon me if I use the terms incorrectly.

I didn't see a particular answer to your first question, so if I missed it please forgive the redundancy. :)

1. Are they taught in the Biblie?

The clearest teaching is from Christ to His apostles . ..





He tells them that as He was sent, so He sends them . .
(Joh 20:21) Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.





That means with all His power and authority . . in fact He tells them that greater things than He did will they do . .



This means they were also sent with the power and authority to send others in the same way, to pass on their office, their power and authority to others . .

This is where apostolic succession starts . . and we see it evidenced in Acts as people have already pointed out. .

2. Who taught them in the Early Church? When did they teach them and why?

The apostles taught others who taught others and so on . . we have the writings of the Early Church Fathers that allows us to see this process and teaching passed on. .

3. What is Apostolicity's purpose?
4. Why is Apostolicity important?
The continuation of the apostolic power and authority conferred by Christ through the apostles . . We still need this today . . . otherwise, the Gates of Hell will prevail against the Church, which Christ promised would never happen.

5. Is it possible that they were advisable or required before but not necessary or advisable now?

No :) See my response above.

6. What do Catholics believe is transmitted? Authority? The Holy Spirit? Salvation? Good doctrine? All of the above? None of the above?

Yes to all but Salvation . . salvation must be sought after by the individual to the level of their ability. . it cannot automatically be conferred on someone . .



Thanks in advance. :)


Does this help?


Peace in Him!
 
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