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Apostles Creed - Jesus in Hell?

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by Sunny_Seraphim, Feb 27, 2010.

  1. Sunny_Seraphim

    Sunny_Seraphim Newbie

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    - Apostles Creed -
    believe in God, the Father Almighty,
    the Maker of heaven and earth,
    and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
    born of the virgin Mary,
    suffered under Pontius Pilate,
    was crucified, dead, and buried;
    He descended into hell.
    The third day He arose again from the dead;
    He ascended into heaven,
    and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
    from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
    I believe in the Holy Ghost;
    the holy catholic church;
    the communion of saints;
    the forgiveness of sins;
    the resurrection of the body;
    and the life everlasting.



    -----


    I agree with most of this, with minor discrepancies. However, where does this Jesus descending to Hell appear in the Bible, for I have never heard of such a thing! Is there any evidence for this, or is this simply a fault of the Apostle's Creed?
     
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  2. God&me

    God&me Guest

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    You will find it in Acts 2:22--27.
    V 24 talks about loosing Jesus from the pain of death, This was Spiritual death because Jesus wasn't loosed from physical death, HE DIED.
    But He was loosed from Spiritual death [suffering in hell] 1 Peter 3: 18--19.
     
  3. Musa80

    Musa80 Veteran

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    It's a translational error. Jesus did not go to hell. What he did do was descend to Sheol or Abraham's Bosom and release the righteous dead there.
     
  4. God&me

    God&me Guest

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    It isn't a translators error, Jesus went to hell where He suffered the pains of Spiritual death. Acts 2: 24--27. Then God raise Him up from Spiritual death 1 Peter 3: 18--19. Then Jesus went to Abrahams bosom and preached to the Old Testament saints.
    Remember in Luke 16: Abrahams bosom was a place of comfort while hell was a place of torment. v25. Jesus suffered pains until God loosed Him when He raised Him up from Spiritual death, So Jesus did go to hell, then He went to Abrahams bosom [Paradice].
     
  5. 1777Candidus

    1777Candidus New Member

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    Jesus did not go to Hell as a place of torment.

    I agree with much of what is written above, but must consider a few things before we read anything into it.

    1. hades, or hell in the New Testament does not always mean a place of torment. As Robertson quotes, "Hades is the unseen world, Hebrew Sheol, but here it is viewed as death itself..." It does not mean the place of punishment, though both Paradise and the place of torment are in Hades (Luke 16:23). "Death and Hades are strictly parallel terms: he who dead is in Hades."

    2. As in Abraham's Bossom, there was a chasm between the world of Paradise, and the world of torment. Both were technically Sheol, or in Greek usage, Hades. I believe that this is where Jesus preached to those who were in prison (they could not cross over the chasm nor leave, even in Paradise).

    3. Not a single passage speaks of Jesus being tormented after His death, or Him dying spiritually. To say so is unscriptural.

    4. The Thief on the Cross asked Jesus to remember him. Jesus responded "And said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in Paradise." (Luke 23:43). Based upon this I could only take Jesus at his word that He was in a place of comfort and peace the very day He died. I don't believe that He would lie to the Thief.

    5. I see the idea of a Trinity denies spiritual death of Jesus. You cannot separate Jesus from the Father and the Spirit and have a "Trinity." To say that it could be so would be to suggest that Jesus was not God, or that the Trinity are three sepatate gods, and not an indivisible Unity.

    Basically, Jesus died and went to Paradise, and most likely preached to the departed souls contained therein. Upon the resurrection of Jesus "the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many... (Matt 27:53). Many see Eph. 4:8 as indicating as Christ ascended to heaven, Jesus those in Paradise (captive) up to heaven with Himself (a first resurrection). After this point we no longer hear of Paradise, but Christians who die are said to be "present with the Lord", in heaven.

    This seems plausible to me.
     
  6. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

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    Indeed, verses 19-20: ...He went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey..." ESV

    We understand this to mean that Christ descended into hell to declare His victory over death and all evil forces. Scripture does not state that He offered these spirits a second chance.

    The Formula of Concord, Epitome IX 4 offers this as well: "Then not only this (mystery), but others also will be revealed that we simply believe here and cannot grasp with our blind reason"... In other words, have faith in what scripture tells us; even when we can not understand.
     
  7. camethodactor

    camethodactor Newbie

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    As a Universalist, the Apostles Creed is one of my professions of faith especially he "descended into hell" because it refers to the harrowing of hell, and 1 Peter 3:19 talking about Jesus preaching to the spirits in prison. That according to God's time, all souls, Christian or not will be reconciled to God.
     
  8. laconicstudent

    laconicstudent Well-Known Member

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    Christ conquered Hell. Why is this such a shocking thing?
     
  9. CryptoLutheran

    CryptoLutheran Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman

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    The Latin of the Apostles' Creed is "descendit ad ínferos", that is, "descended into the depths". Christ descended into Hades, or She'ol, the realm of the dead or common grave. It emphasizes that yes, Christ actually died. But it also speaks to the Christian belief in Christ's victory over Hades, the Harrowing of Hell (see St. John Chrysostom's Paschal Homily). The Icon of the Anastasis (Resurrection) almost always shows Christ in Hell, with the gates of Hell toppled down under His feet, with the devil defeated and crushed beneath Christ while the Lord raises Adam (sometimes Eve also) out of his sarcophagus with all the saints gathered as the Lord has destroyed the power of death.

    "Christ is risen from the dead,
    Trampling down Death by death,
    And to those in the tombs,
    Bestowing life!
    "
    - Paschal Troparion

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  10. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ Devoted to Truth Supporter

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    It's been said that the thief was the first to enter paridise after Jesus descended to hell and back. Paridise is described scripturally as the garden of Eden. So what's to say that the discussion wasn't about the new jerusalem and the fact that the thief went directly to Jesus to procur a place with him. Not a place of prominance that was being sought by the disciples via their mother. He asked humbly and he recieved that which only the Father could give to those who were looking for positions of greatness.
     
  11. Hairy Tic

    Hairy Tic Well-Known Member

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    ## The Incarnation does not separate the Divine Persons.

    If an author writes himself into his own story, he remains as present to his family as before - and becomes present in his story in a fresh way, as a result of "sub-creating" a character who is both his invention, & his own self. He has "access" both to his family - and to the world in which his story takes place. His invented characters have access only to the world in which they exist, which for them is the primary world. We are like those invented characters - we do not have access to God. The prophets & seers & Saints are like invented characters who have caught a hint of the reality of the world in which their inventor lives; that world cannot be adequately described, because it more real than the one they live in. Reasonably enough, what they say is often dismissed as baseless invention.

    "In" the man Jesus, God the Word enters His own world as a man - & because He is God, He is as truly "with" the Father as He is "with" men.

    That is a (very distant) analogy for the way in which the Eternal Word was present, both on earth, incarnate as the man Jesus; and also, in Heaven. He proceeded "from" the Father to "enter" time & the womb of Mary, which are both His handiwork; while not ceasing to be present "with" His Father in Heaven. It is very important to be convinced that in the Incarnation, what is changed is not God, not any of the Divine Persons, but creation. God is not altered by creation - creation is. And the Incarnation is very like the creation "in the beginning". When God acts, when a Divine Person, that which is acted on is changed - the Divine Agent is not.

    God is not One Person, appearing in three "modes" - the Father is not the Son, nor is either the Spirit: that mistake sacrifices the mystery of God-as-Trinity to the mystery of God-as-Unity. At every step, we are dealing with mystery, with what is of its very nature utterly inaccessible to the mind of man, unless God should reveal it. The Blessed Trinity is supernatural in the strict & proper sense of the word - man cannot by searching find it out. Reason cannot by its own powers come to know of it, any more than a picture of a torch in a child's book can outshine the sun. True knowledge of it, however faint, can be received by man, even so - but only as a sheer gift of God, & only as a consequence of the Incarnation.


     
  12. ifightdwagons

    ifightdwagons the water, the Spirit and the blood; 1 John5:8

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    If you read from what Paul says in his epistles. He mentions the Saints sleep after their deaths. If you also know we will be raptured at the seventh trumpet and those asleep in Christ will be raised imperishable. So him descending in hell is perhaps hogwash?
     
  13. GaryP

    GaryP Newbie

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    There are 2 chirsts, One goes to Heaven and one goes to hell. You get to pick which
    one.

    2 children are mentioned in Luke, Both had miraculous birth, both had songs, both
    had ministries, both baptized, one earth water, one living water, born 6 months apart
    so they are complete opposites. both were filled with a holy spirit, one at birth one
    years later. Both were slain, both had tombs and both were believed to be raised from the dead.

    Pick the Heaven or Hell one. "Father into your hands I commit my spirit "

    Jesus came in the Flesh.
     
  14. barryrob

    barryrob Junior Member

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    HOW CAN JESUS GO TO HELL:-

    To be tormented as a wicked person after one dies the person must still exist, but in another from, is this the case?

    FIRST

    WHAT IS THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD?

    “Dead: no longer alive ….”-Oxford Dic.

    WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY?
    ECCL. 9:5
    “For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all (“But the dead know nothing”-‘TANAKH’ Jewish Bible), neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.”

    and

    Eccl. 9:10
    All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work (“no action”-‘TANAKH’ Jewish Bible) nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She´ol, the place to which you are going.


    LIFE IS BEING (existence) - DEATH IS NON-BEING (non existence)!

    example: The first human Adam!

    GEN. 2:17 states God’s punishment for Adam’s disobedient act of eating from ‘a tree which God had said ‘he was not to touch’ which was “you will positively die.”

    Where did Adam go at death?

    GEN. 3:19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

    NOTE: ADAM = “For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

    ADAM DID NOT return to a spirit realm but back to where he came from, the dirt of the ground OR non-being (non-existence), thus as God said “back to the ground from which you came.”


    SO DOES THE “SOUL” DEPART TO A NEITHER WORLD OR THE LIKE?


    FURTHER LIGHT IS SHED ON THIS AT:
    EZEK. 18:4
    "Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die."

    Ezek 18:20
    "The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.. ."


    NO, THE “SOUL,” IT DIES, AS WITH ADAM and does not go somewhere elses to live after death!



    SECOND
    WHAT IS HELL?

    A definition of “hell” reads: “Hell -n. 1 place regarded in some religions as the abode of the dead, or of devils and condemned sinners. 2 place or state of misery or wickedness. … .”-Oxford Dic.


    IS THIS CORRECT ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE?
    “SHEOL … Regarding Sheol, in A Compendious Hebrew Lexicon, Samuel Pike stated that it is “the common receptacle or region of the dead; so called from the insatiability of the grave, which is as it were always asking or craving more.” (Cambridge, 1811, p. 148) This would indicate that Sheol is the place (not a condition) that asks for or demands all without distinction, as it receives the dead of mankind within it.—Gen 37:35, ftn; Pr 30:15, 16."-It. Vol. 2 p.922


    The C. OF E. made an intresting comment on hell, in ‘The Mystery of Salvation’ The Story of God’s Gift, A Report by the Doctrine Commission of the Great Synod of the Church of England p.199

    “Hell is not eternal torment, but it is the final and irrevocable choosing of that which is opposed to God so completely and so absolute that the only end is total non-being. … Annihilation might be a truer picture of damnation that any of the traditional images of the hell of torment.”



    To go to “Hell” is to just go underground.
    “In old English the word hell simply meant to hide or to cover - helling potatoes meant putting them into pits, helling a house meant covering or thatching it, etc.; the word hell was therefore properly used as signifying the secret or hidden condition of death. It had no reference whatever to a place of torture until that meaning was attached to it by the theologians of the Dark Ages.”-Restoration Light Bible Study Service, P.O. Box 16892, Philadelphia, PA 19142 USA


    QUESTION
    WHY IS THERE SO MUCH CONFUSION ABOUT HELL
    VARIOUS IDEAS ABOUT HELL:-
    "Hell In various religions, a place of posthumous punishment. In Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, hell is a transitory stage in the progress of the soul, but in Christianity and Islam it is eternal (purgatory is transitory). Judaism does not postulate such punishment. In the Bible, the word `hell' is used to translate Hebrew and Greek words all meaning `the place of departed spirits, the abode of the dead'. In medieval Christian theology, hell is the place where unrepentant sinners suffer the torments of the damned, but the 20th-century tendency has been to regard hell as a state of damnation (that is, everlasting banishment from the sight of God) rather than a place."-INFOPEDIA UK96, Hutchinson New Century Encylocpedia



    ‘History of Western Philosophy’ by Bertrand Russell p.257
    "It is sometimes supposed that Hell was a Christian invention, but this is a mistake. What Christianity did in this respect was only to systematise earlier popular beliefs.”

    What where these “earlier popular beliefs” that where used to produced Hell-Fire?

    Egyptian
    ‘The Religion of Ancient Egypt’ by A.H.Sayce DD., LL.D. p.197
    "It was not only the friends and followers of Ra [the Sun god] who thus accompanied him in his journey through the other world; his enemies were there also, and the horrible punishments they had to endure, as depicted on the walls of royal tombs, were worthy of the imagination of a Dante. … Fire-breathing serpents are prominent among them, lighting up the darkness for the friends of Ra, and burning his foes with their poisonous flames."


    ‘The Religion of Ancient Egypt’ by Professor A. H. Sayce pp.229-30*
    Lecture X. The Place Of Egyptian Religion In The History Of Theology
    "Many of the theories of Egyptian religion modified and transformed no doubt, and penetrated into the theology of Christian Europe, and formed, as it were, part of the woof in the web of modern religious thought. Christian theology was largely organised and nurtured in the schools of Alexandria, and Alexandria was not only the meeting place of East and West, it was also the place where the decrepit theology of Egypt was revived by contact with the speculative philosophy of Greece. The Egyptian, the Greek, and the Jew met there on equal terms, and the result was a theological system in which each had a share.”


    THUS THE IDEA OF A BURNING PLACE OF EVERLASTING TORMENT ("HELL") IN THE AFTER LIFE HAS IT ROOTS IN PAGANISM & NOT TO BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE!

    THE “BODY” DESTROYED IN HELL
    (See * for Greek words)
    It is taught by various religions that “hell” is a place for the torment of a wicked persons immortal “soul” after their physical death, this is not a Bible teaching as noted below in the words of The Prophet Jesus at:-
    Greek N.T.
    καὶ μὴ φοβηθῆτε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτενόντων τὸ σῶμα**, τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι· φοβήθητε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα** ἀπολέσαι* ἐν γεέννῃ.
    N.W.T. Matthew 10:28
    “And do not become fearful of those who kill the body** but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy* both soul and body** in Ge•hen´na.
    K.J.V. Matthew 10:28
    “And fear not them which kill the body**, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy* both soul and body** in hell.”
    *J. Strong’s Greek Dictionary No. 622 ἀπόλλυμι apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
    **J. Strong’s Greek Dictionary No. 4983 σῶμα sōma so'-mah From G4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.

    In the above text from Matthew 10:28 we see:-

    1) that “BOTH THE SOUL AND BODY” go to ‘hell’ to be “destroyed” NOT to continue existing all be it in suffering and
    2) that the “body” can also go to “hell” so as the physical “body” can also go to “hell” then “hell” must be a material place for the materal “body” to be destroyed (it stops living). This follows well with the idea that the faithful Jews viewed Sheol (rendered as “hell” in some Bibles) as a place for the end of life or the of the “soul,” so the better understanding of “hell” as the Jew Jesus said, it is where all life ends; The Grave!
     
  15. CryptoLutheran

    CryptoLutheran Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman

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    .........what?

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  16. papaJP

    papaJP Prophet

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    It's a translational error. Jesus did not go to hell. What he did do was descend to Sheol or Abraham's Bosom and release the righteous dead there.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    He decended into the place where those who had died up and until that time were. He went to give them the chance to repent and believe. The use of the word Hell is misunderstood by many. It is a way for man to try to describe the absolute absence of God and the torment of fire that is given for those who do not believe.
    To wrangle over words is moot and Paul warns against this.
     
  17. Jpark

    Jpark Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but Sheol can also refer to the earth's mantle (Num. 16:29-34).

    Matt. 12:40 ...so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    And Jesus' spirit went to Abraham's bosom (Luke 23:43). Abraham's bosom meant to be seated next to Abraham in Paradise. Luke 22:43 indicates that His spirit went to Paradise with the criminal's spirit.

    Nope. 1 Peter 3:19 only indicates proclamation. There is only one opportunity to repent and believe and that is when one is living on earth.

    Yes. That is why I use hell.

    Hell is more convenient and to say "the lake of fire" would bring to mind misconceptions such as "God is the lake of fire", "the lake of fire is eternal death", annihilation, etc.

    I suppose I could use "place of eternal torture" though.
     
  18. Christos Anesti

    Christos Anesti Junior Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. Timothew

    Timothew Conditionalist

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    The Resurrection

    Don’t be so surprised! Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God’s Son, and they will rise again. (John 5:28 and part of 29)
     
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