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apollumi: the Word that Tells us What Happens to People in Hell

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Mark Corbett, May 1, 2021.

  1. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    I know this was not directed at me--had to but in.
    just as with Jesus----OBIDIENCE IS REQUIRED!! This is not pro Uni---NO ONE in the lake of fire is being--or going to be---obedient to the will of God. They are there because the were disobedient. They had their chance while they lived--Just as Jesus did. Jesus did not become obedient after death, He died obedient.
     
  2. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    From what was required to pay the penalty for Adam's rebellion.
    Bill Gates is the same as any other human being. He puts his pants on one leg at a time. Money doesn't change his nature as human.
    God is not diminshed by violation of his divine law. His justice required that the penalty for offense againt the infinite could only be paid by the infinite Son.
    The meaning of words in the NT is determined by their usage.
    For example, Paul never uses the word "spiritual" to mean non-material, non-corporeal, non-physical, and always uses it to mean of the realm of the Holy Spirit.

    The Greek word referred to is not used of annihilation in the NT, it's aways used of ruin.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  3. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    You do what the bible says --- believe, accept His grace---obey his will, and be baptized if possible. The thief on the cross had no time to be baptized, nor obey anything. He simply accepted Jesus as the Son of
    of God. That he had the faith to see who Jesus actually was and ask to be in His kingdom, even though
    Jesus was being crucified as a criminal, that was faith. That is His covering.
    No we are not being protected from God--we are being enabled to be in His presence---there is a difference. It is the covering of love. God loves us and we love Him--those who have refused to accept Him are refusing love--Read John 4---esp 7-21.

    1Jn 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
    1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
     
  4. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    The meaning of annihilation is to total non-existence.
     
  5. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Not automatically. A relationship with Christ matters. What does it take to get there? That's the question. I still believe in weeping and gnashing of teeth. Kind of like when you got saved. - lol
     
  6. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Mercy is out of the question?
     
  7. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Clare, something similar to "total non-existence" is what is meant by annihilation in modern physics. However, in the context of the final fate of the unrighteous we mean "no conscious existence." Also, it means that this lack of conscious existence is complete (body and soul) and permanent. When the whole process is complete there might be something like ashes, dust, or smoke left over. But that really doesn't matter that much, does it?
     
  8. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Salvation by works then? Don't let MQ see you write that. - lol
     
  9. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Didn't you just make a HUGE point about OBEDIENCE?
     
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Yes, annihilate can mean to erase from existence completely but it also has other meanings or definitions.

    If you believe otherwise, you would be simply arguing with the dictionary.

    [​IMG]
    Source:
    Annihilate | Definition of Annihilate by Webster's Online Dictionary

    Notice definition 3. To destroy, as a property or attribute of a thing; to make of no effect.

    WordNet Dictionary says to kill in large numbers.

    Related Words: Ruin. So annihate has various different definitions. It can mean to destroy, or to make of no effect, too.
     
  11. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Then you are talking annihilation of the spirit, because the spirit does not lose "consciousness" as long as it exists.

    And that is the annihilation of which I am speaking.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  12. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    The meaning of words in the NT is determined by their usage.
    For example, Paul never uses the word "spiritual" to mean non-material, non-corporeal, non-physical, and
    always uses it to mean "of the realm of the Holy Spirit."
    So in Paul's epistles, "spiritual" does not mean immaterial.

    Likewise, apollumi is not used to mean "annihilate" in the NT, only to mean ruin.
    The NT does not present annihilation of the spirit.
     
  13. JulieB67

    JulieB67 Active Member

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    While I don't agree with the UR point of view, I definitely respect the notion and believe that God would not torment someone in a state of "endless burning". That goes against the very nature of God.
    My point is that if someone doesn't want to spend an eternity with God, he will simply blot them out of existence. But he is long suffering and not willing "anyone" should "perish" but that they would come to repentance.

    Does that sound like a God who believes in endless torment? (To those who believe this to be the case)
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  14. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Do you feel you have an adequate comprehension of the whole counsel of God regarding his nature?
    Or could you be projecting human notions not in agreeement with Biblical revelation of the nature of God?

    There is nothing in eternal damnation not accord with "the very nature of God."
    Actually, it sounds like a God made in the image of man.
     
  15. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    "Repent and believe" (Mark 1:15) is a command requiring obedience in order to be saved.
     
  16. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So, you're claiming that annihilate always means ruin in the New Testament?
     
  17. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Apollumi is not used to mean annihilate in the NT, where it is used it means ruin.
     
  18. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ok, what does annihilate mean in this verse?

    CSB17 Matthew 2:13 After they were gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, "Get up! Take the child and his mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I tell you. For Herod is about to search for the child to kill him."

    Or this one?

    CSB17 Matthew 8:25 So the disciples came and woke him up, saying, "Lord, save us! We're going to die!"
     
  19. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    It means ruin--loss of life, damage, dismantling--it does not mean annihilation of one's spirit.

    Paul does not see annihilation at his death, for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-9).
    What is absent from his body and what is present with the Lord, not his body?
     
  20. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Clare, I already explained to you in comment #73 that my view, conditional immortality, is not about the intermediate state. Do you understand what this means? Or maybe you honestly forgot? I'm not trying to insult you at all. I'm just trying to understand why you are asking about this again?
     
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