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apollumi: the Word that Tells us What Happens to People in Hell

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Mark Corbett, May 1, 2021.

  1. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Clare, where do you find that principle about the gravity of the offense in the Bible?

    Concerning God being infinite, consider this. If someone stole $100 from Bill Gates, they would be judged based on the $100 they stole, not on the basis of the billions of dollars that Bill Gates owns. No one has stolen infinite glory or power or honor from God. No one has caused God infinite harm or loss.

    But IF your reasoning were correct, how do you explain that the word used most often to describe the final fate of the unrighteous is also one of the best words in the Greek language to refer to annihilation?
     
  2. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The loss of life is exactly what we mean by annihilation. A dead body cannot feel or think anything. It cannot be tormented. Neither can a dead spirit.
     
  3. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Here's a few. Where is the grace?

    James 2:14 NIV
    What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

    Matthew 25:34-36 NIV
    “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

    Revelation 20:12-14 NIV
    And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
     
  4. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I thought you were asking for a proof of UR. This is a good place to start. You'll probably skip over verse 18, like everyone else does. But maybe not.

    Saint Steven said:
    Should we talk about this one again?

    Romans 5:18-19
    Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
    so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
    19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
    so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
     
  5. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    But doesn't that prove my point? Did Jesus die to save us from God?
     
  6. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Doesn't this further confirm what I am asking?
    Did Jesus die to save us from God?

    What happens if we are not covered with His purity?
    How do we receive this covering?
     
  7. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here's one type of evidence (not even the most important) from my video that no one has given a satisfactory explanation for:
    apollumi Plato Plutarch Athenagoras.jpg
     
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  8. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Consider this. Thanks.

    Edom
    Edom was an ancient kingdom in Transjordan located between Moab to the northeast, the Arabah to the west and the Arabian Desert to the south and east. Most of its former territory is now divided between Israel and Jordan.

    The destruction of Edom uses the same exaggerated language descriptions as hell in the Bible. Yet none of it lasted forever as it clearly says. And you can certainly pass through it today. For this prophecy to be taken literally it would need to be a smoking tar pit with a bypass to get around it.

    Isaiah 34:8-11
    For the Lord has a day of vengeance,
    a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause.
    9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch,
    her dust into burning sulfur;
    her land will become blazing pitch!
    10 It will not be quenched night or day;
    its smoke will rise forever.
    From generation to generation it will lie desolate;
    no one will ever pass through it again.
    11 The desert owl and screech owl will possess it;
    the great owl and the raven will nest there.
    God will stretch out over Edom
    the measuring line of chaos
    and the plumb line of desolation.
     
  9. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Of course you want it to end. But that is not the scenario I was describing, concerning hell. But you didn't get it the first time --no need to keep on.
     
  10. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Reminds me of the saying --"No, he's not right! He's not even wrong!"

    No, God doesn't throw you in hell for not letting Jesus in! You go to hell for your sins!
     
  11. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    What is God's purpose in a forever burning hell?
     
  12. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Doesn't that represent a rejection of Christ to you? (not letting Jesus in)
     
  13. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    None of those say anyone is saved by works. Their works tell on them. Read James again. 'Faith without works is dead' does not mean 'saved by works'. But something tells me you already know this.

    Further, the mode or degree of their existence after this life is determined by their works. Those in hell pay for their sins. Those in heaven are rewarded for their good deeds.

     
  14. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Been there; Done that. It doesn't even begin to prove UR. It only shows the fact that nobody is justified, but through Christ.
     
  15. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Did I not say 'time-irrelevant'?

    Here's my original #22:
    Well, I have THE happy answer, haha! You are both right and wrong. No, actually, just a thought that might answer both. In Heaven we know time will be no more. Why not hell? Why not no passage of time, but complete payment of infinite sin. Sin is not, after all, finite, being against infinite God.

    Language indicating time without end, I think, is for the sake of human understanding, that these are not released to some better state, nor quite done away with as though they had never existed, but simply in a state we at present cannot understand. A similar state, I think, is referred to for our sakes as sleep, in death, before judgement, yet it can also be said, 'Today you will be with me in paradise'. I see no reason to think Adam will show up in Heaven any sooner than I will.

    So these in the Lake of Fire undergo complete justice, neither for a long time, nor for a limited time. I can see that as what happened to Christ, so that the whole of the penalty of the Redeemed was laid on him, and was paid at his death, yet I have seen no indication that he is in any sense 'still there'. Time irrelevant.
     
  16. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I'm no good at arguing the point. But there have been topics on this forum where the battle rages over this issue. The point being that there are disagreements all the time as to what the Bible says about this, or that.

    There are three views of the final judgment. All three have biblical support. Just ask the proponents of each.
     
  17. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Okay. What is God's purpose in a 'time-irrelevant' burning hell?
     
  18. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No more than deeds represent Election.

    But what difference does it make to you? You have no dog in this fight. You think absolutely everybody is going to be saved.

    Nothing changes, everything remains the same....
     
  19. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Payment. Justice done.
     
  20. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    You obviously do not apprehend Jesus' relationship to Scripture, which to you would be "idolatry" on steriods.

    In my experience, it is those who depend on the Bible who have the most intimate face-to-face relationship with God because they are more in agreement with him.
     
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