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apollumi: the Word that Tells us What Happens to People in Hell

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Mark Corbett, May 1, 2021.

  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    How are you defining "body and soul"?
    Does this mean that physical bodies go to hell?
    Wouldn't the first use of each in the verse be the same as the second use?
    Note that "body and soul" is used twice.
     
  2. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Steve, I really appreciate your graceful interaction here.

    I prefer to think of "death" being used in the Bible in these two ways:
    1. Literally: referring to the cessation of life, the loss of life
    2. Metaphorically: here it may have several meanings, and it is not always easy to determine precisely what metaphorical meaning is intended in a given verse. Possible meanings I see some support for include:
    a. being unresponsive to God (His will, His truth, His voice, His love) in the way that a dead body is unresponsive to the world around it
    b. "as good as dead," or "doomed to die" (this type of metaphor is called prolepsis and I think it is fairly common and harmonizes well with the already/not yet tension we see throughout the New Testament)

    Your question may be addressed in the video. I've set the video below to start at the point where I think it deals with your question.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  3. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I believe that "body and soul" here means the whole person.
    Yes, I believe that the unrighteous will be resurrected to face judgment. They will face judgment in their resurrected (but still mortal) bodies. Then they will be thrown into hell, and in hell God will destroy both their bodies and souls. Remember, we are talking about hell (gehenna) at the final judgment, and not about Hades (the intermediate state while waiting for final judgment.
     
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  4. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Great, thanks.
    Do you spend any time in the topic video differentiating between the literal and metaphorical uses of the word death as it applies to apollumi? (and annihilation)

    If not, perhaps that is something we could address on this topic?

    Perhaps the meaning of apollumi is metaphorical, rather than literal. Like a sports team that decimates their opponents. Only to meet them again in the playoffs. - lol
     
  5. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good question. I don't think I address the possibility that when apollumi is referring to the final fate of the unrighteous it is used hyperbolically. Generally, there needs to be something in the context to alert us that the author intends a non-literal meaning. I can't really think of anything like that. Also, it is used so often, it would have to be used hyperbolically a lot. In fact, it seems like sometimes the context argues specifically for a literal interpretation in verses like John 3:16 where the alternative to perishing (apollumi) is to have eternal life.
     
  6. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    This is the thing I like best about the Annihilationism theory. (no offense) The fact that it puts an end to sin, rather than making it everlasting. Which doesn't solve the sin problem whatsoever.

    To me, eternal conscious torment means that sin somehow wins. That God could not put an end to it. That free will put God in the hopeless situation of having to torment those who made the wrong choices for all eternity with no hope of escape, nor any positive outcome. Making a mockery of grace forever. A shocking display of the insufficiency of the atonement. Like paying for the whole truckload of groceries and only leaving with a small bagful.

    And to make matters worse, those in heaven know that their loved ones are in "the basement" dungeon suffering unthinkable torture while they are supposed to be enjoying heaven. Mind boggling, really.
     
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  7. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    This may be where the distinction that I make between physical death and spiritual death make a difference. (as well as spiritual death and life)

    Even though the comparison in John 3:16 is between eternal life and perishing (death), it could be argued that death in that use is either physical, or spiritual.

    Does belief in Jesus lead to physical, or spiritual life? (or both?) So then what does that mean about perishing? Physical, or spiritual death? (or both?)

    You clearly stated your position on the afterlife in Hades as being a physical existence. Which I agree with, as opposed to the unconscious nonexistence that some believe for the afterlife. But I see it as more of a spiritual existence. The spiritual body having physical characteristics.

    Then I am able to see those who enter the afterlife as being physically dead, having passed from this life, and either spiritually alive, as believers, or remaining as spiritually dead, which we all inherited from Adam.
     
  8. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree that this is a real strength of the conditional immortality view. Many who believe in eternal torment explicitly say that the unsaved in hell will continue to sin (at least in their thoughts and hatred towards God) forever. But the Bible paints a much better picture of eternity. A time will come when everything that still exists is in glad submission and joyful harmony with Christ.
     
  9. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Yes. From my perspective, Damnationism is a complete assault on the character of God. Annihilationism is a step in the right direction away from the Traditional view of the final judgment.

    And this raises serious questions about the motivations of both those who have used fear tactics to make and control converts, and the converts themselves who made a spiritual decision under extortion conditions. Thus turning our heavenly Father into a gangster godfather. Making us "an offer we can't refuse."

    But from that perspective, perhaps Annihilationism doesn't fare much better. Believe, or be incinerated. (no offense) But how else could this be honestly characterized?
     
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Watched a little at this point you referred him to. Yes, I think you made a good point that Christians should not ignore the 37 verses in defense of the destruction (eradication) of the soul after the judgment in favor of a few verses that appear to defense ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment). People hold to preconceived beliefs for various reasons. It could be acceptance in the church among their friends. It could be that they cannot believe that the church could be wrong. Anyways, when I finally made the move or shift to believe in Conditional Immortality whole heartedly, I could more clearly see the attack ECT was making on the good character of our God.

    Those who currently hold to ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment) fail to truly understand that God is into fair justice (Luke 12:47-48).

    In fact, speaking of fair justice of our Lord Jesus (God):

    Matthew 26:24 says,
    “The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.”

    Luke 17:2
    “It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.”

    Romans 2:6
    “Who will render to every man according to his deeds:”​

    These three verses suggest degrees of justice. Eternal Conscious Torment is not about a degree of justice but it is overkill. It is not fair justice. However, it is written:

    “Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal 1; knowing that ye [you-all] also have a Master in heaven.” (Colossians 4:1).

    1. equal: characterized by fairness (Source: 1913 Webster’s Dictionary).
    “Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.” (Romans 9:14).

    Sir Arthur Conan Doyle once said,

    “Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”
    In fact, the whole reason why Jesus went to the cross was to pay the price for our sins. If God was not into fair justice, He simply would not have needed to send His Son to pay the price for our sin and He could have simply just forgiven us with no payment for sin. But the Lord our God is a God of fair justice. So the Son was sent to die for you, and me. How bitter, and yet sweet that truth is. For it truly shows how truly loving and good the Lord is to us.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  11. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nah, you're just pushing revisionist propaganda, because like I said, there are FAKE printings of Strong's Exhaustive Concordance that have no Hebrew/Greek Lexicons in it. I made the mistake in the 1990's of buying a paper copy. I threw it away because I had an 'actual' earlier edition of a real Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.

    And one can still... get a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance included in Bible study software from BibleSoft, which is one of the tools I use.

    Here's an example, though it is the 'New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers AND CONCORDANCE':

    OT:7225 <START HEBREW>[email protected]
    <END HEBREW> re'shiyth (ray-sheeth'); from the same as OT:7218; the first, in place, time, order or rank (specifically, a firstfruit):

    KJV - beginning, chief (-est), first (-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
    (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
     
  12. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Fair question!

    It could be characterized like this:
    1. God's goal is to end up with a world full of people who are like Him in terms of their character. Most importantly, this includes love.
    2. God-like love requires free will, so He gave us free will knowing that many would misuse it.
    3. When people fail to love as we should (God and others), we mess up His world. We hurt ourselves and others. It would be terrible if people lived in this condition forever:
    ESV Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever-- "​
    4. God made a way to both forgive us and to transform us - through faith in Christ.
    5. Those who reject faith in Christ are not fit for eternal life, so God will not allow them to live forever.
    6. He could have overrided their free will, but apparently He does not think turning them into loveless robots is the best option.
    7. So, at final judgment, He will destroy them completely.

    That's not unfair. It's not cruel. It's not inconsistent with love, in fact it is partly driven by the importance of love. And most importantly, it harmonizes very well with all of the Bible, which is God's Word.
     
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  13. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Thanks for your thoughtful response.

    It tracks well with the what I was taught in church growing up Evangelical. However, I can see some real difficulties with it now. Two things really stand out to me.

    1) Based on the goal in your point #1, the plan to accomplish this seems like a complete failure. The narrow way that leads to salvation and the broad way to destruction (apollumi) assures failure. So the plan, as understood, is a catastrophic failure to accomplish the intended goal. Is God really that incompetent? (I hope not)
    2) There are countless billions (throughout history and now) that have never so much as heard the name of Jesus, let alone been given an opportunity to respond to the gospel.

    Here's a paragraph from my buddy @Lazarus Short that makes some important points about this dilemma. (God's plan to fulfill his will for humankind) Note bold text.

    God's sovereign Will is clear: that all men come to salvation in Him. Will the Will of God not prevail? The Calvinists assert that God is able to save all, but chooses not to. The Arminians counter that He would like to save all, but cannot. There is a third position, that God is both WILLING and ABLE to save all. I wrestled with this idea, and it is not too difficult to find that He is willing...but is He able? Then, one day it came to me in a flash: God is omnipotent, so OF COURSE He is able to save all. No "mental gymnastics" are required, and no overturning, negation or alteration of His Will or His Word is required, just the realization that the doctrine of eternal damnation is wrong. I could not find it in the KJV, and the "evidence" quoted by "hell" advocates is small and contradicted by many more Scriptures that I can quote all day.
     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    @Mark Corbett:

    I agree with you on the fact that the wicked will be eradicated (erased from existence) in the Lake of Fire. Do you believe the wicked will be immediately destroyed in the Lake of Fire?

    The following verses suggest that there is some level of difference in regards to God executing judgment.

    Matthew 26:24 says,
    “The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.”

    Luke 17:2
    “It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.”

    Romans 2:6
    “Who will render to every man according to his deeds:”​

    These three verses suggest differet degrees of justice being carried out. This tells me one of two things. Either:

    #1. God punishes the wicked in a literal hell to different degrees, and or:
    #2. God punishes the wicked in the Lake of Fire for a certain set amount of time (in proportion to their sins that they committed) before they are destroyed or erased from existence. Isaiah 66:23 says that a certain amount of time passes before the saints in Isaiah 66:24 look upon the carcases of men (the wicked) who transgressed against the Lord.​

    Isaiah 66:23-24
    23 “And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
    24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”
     
  15. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Apollumi means ruin, not annihilation.

    Where do we find in the NT apollumi used of annihilation?
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Isaiah 66:22-24 paints a picture of the wicked's end. They are carcases (dead bodies), and not living human beings screaming in torments. The atoms of the wicked in Isaiah 66:24 are not completely obliterated from existence at this point. The point is that their soul (the core essence of who they are) will end and be no more. Their bodies wil of course be ruined, but their bodies will be lifeless husks or shells (just like dead bodies in a graveyard). Their is no soul or spirit animating those in the grave. These are the things which are annihilated.
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Apollumi (G622) is translated into English as “perish” and or “lost” or “lose.”

    “For whosoever will save his life shall lose G622 it: but whosoever will lose G622 his life for my sake, the same shall save it.” (Luke 9:24).

    If I were to read this above verse literally, it is saying that the person who saves his life shall lose it. Seeing we die to Christ daily to ourselves (metaphor) and we can lose our lives literally for Christ (lteral), we will have saved our lives (literal). But if we live this life for ourselves (we save our life for our own selfish purposes - metaphor), we will lose it (literally lose our life). The End. No more. It's like losing your keys in hot magma. Let em go. They are gone, and no more. Don't reach into that magma! They are gone. They are lost to the hot molten magma.
     
  18. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    A word study I did a few years ago.
    ἀπόλλυμι/Apollumi occurs 86 times in the NT, of this 68 times, 79%, it cannot mean the destruction/annihilation which some argue supposedly occurs at the final judgment. Here is a list of those meanings.(1) ruin, (2) do not bring about his ruin, (3) put to death, the wicked tenants, (4) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death, (5) destroy the wisdom of the wise, (6) destroy the understanding, (7) lose, (8) lose the reward, (9) lose what we have worked for, (10) lose one’s life, (11) lose oneself, (12) The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it’), (13) ruined, (14) die, the man dies, (15) As a cry of anguish, we are perishing!, (16) of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer, (17) die by the sword, (18) die of hunger, (19) be corrupted, (20) killed by the snakes, (21) those who are lost, (22) of things be lost, (23) pass away, (24) be ruined, (26) of bursting wineskins, (25) fading beauty, (26) transitory beauty of gold, (27) passing splendor, (28) Of earthly food, (29) spoiled honey, (30) Of falling hair, (31) a member or organ of the body, (32) remnants of food, (33) of wine that has lost its flavor, (34) of sheep gone astray, (35) Of a lost son [that returned].

    …..Here is the definition of apollumi from BDAG, one of, if not, the most highly accredited Greek lexicons available
    = = = = = = = = = =

    ἀπόλλυμι for its conjug. s. B-D-F §101 (s.v. ὄλλυμι); W-S. §14, 18; Rob. 317; fut. ἀπολέσω Hs 8, 7, 5; Att. ἀπολῶ 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14; ParJer 1:1, 8); 1 aor. ἀπώλεσα; 1 pf. ἀπολώλεκα. Mid.: fut. ἀπολοῦμαι Lk 13:3; 2 aor. ἀπωλόμην; the 2 pf. ἀπόλωλα functions as a pf. mid.; ptc. ἀπολωλώς (Hom.+).
    to cause or experience destructionⓐ act. ruin, destroy
    α. of pers. (Sir 10:3) Mk 1:24; Lk 4:34. W. ref. to eternal destruction μὴ ἐκεῖνον ἀπόλλυε do not bring about his ruin ton 2, 8, 1) Js 4:12; Hs 9, 23, 4. Of Ro 14:15. Esp. kill, put to death (Gen 20:4; Esth 9:6 v.l.; 1 Macc 2:37; Jos., C. Ap. 1, 122; Mel., P. 84, 635 [Ch.] τὸν ἐχθρόν σου) Hs 9, 26, 7. παιδίον Mt 2:13; Jesus 12:14; 27:20; Mk 3:6; 11:18; Lk 19:47; B 12:5; the wicked tenants κακοὺς κακῶς ἀ. (s. κακός 1a) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death Mt 21:41. τοὺς γεωργούς Mk 12:9; Lk 20:16; τ. φονεῖς Mt 22:7; τ. μὴ πιστεύσαντας those who did not believe Jd 5; πάντας Lk 17:27, 29. W. σῶσαι (like Charito 2, 8,1) Js 4:12: H9, 3, 4. eternal death (Herm. Wr. 4, 7; Tat. 11:2 ἀπώλεσεν ἡμᾶς τὸ αὐτέξουσιον) ψυχὴν κ. σῶμα ἀ. ἐν γεέννῃ Mt 10:28; ψυχήν B 20:1; τ. ψυχάς Hs 9, 26, 3 (cp. Sir 20:22).
    β. w. impers. obj. ἀ. τ. σοφίαν τ. σοφῶν destroy the wisdom of the wise 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14). ἀ. τ. διάνοιαν destroy the understanding Hm 11:1 (cp. Just., D. 93, 1 τὰς φυσικὰς ἐννοίας).γ. without obj. J 10:10.
    ⓑ mid. perish, be ruined
    α. of pers. perish, die (schol. on Nicander, Ther. 188 ἀπόλλυται ὁ ἀνήρ=the man dies υσθαι) 1 Cl 51:5; 55:6; B 5:4, 12; D 16:5; Hs 6, 2, 1f. As a cry of anguish ἀπολλύμεθα we are perishing! (Epict. 2, 19, 16 [in a storm-tossed vessel]; PPetr II, 4 [1], 4f νυνὶ δὲ ἀπολλύμεθα) Mt 8:25; Mk 4:38; Lk 8:24 (Arrian, Peripl. 3, 3 of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer). ἐν μαχαίρῃ ἀ. die by the sword Mt 26:52. λιμῷ of hunger (Ezk 34:29) Lk 15:17. τῇ ἀντιλογίᾳ τοῦ Κόρε Jd 11c (because of 11a and b it should perh. = be corrupted ; cp. Polyb. 32, 23, 6). ὑπό τινος (Hdt. 5. 126; Dio Chrys. 13 [7], 12) ὑπὸ τ. ὄφεων killed by the snakes 1 Cor 10:9; cp. vs. 10. Abs. of a people perish J 11:50. Of individuals (Lev 23:30) Ac 5:37; 2 Pt 3:9; 1 Cl 12:6; 39:5 (Job 4:20).—Esp. of eternal death (cp. Ps 9:6f; 36:20; 67:3; 72:27; 82:18; 91:10; Is 41:11) J 3:16; 17:12. ἀπολέσθαι εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα perish forever 10:28 (Bar 3:3 ἡμεῖς ἀπολλύμενοι τὸν αἰῶνα). ἀνόμως ἀ. Ro 2:12; μωρῶς ἀ. IEph 17:2 (cp. ἀσκόπως Just., D. 8, 4); ἐν καυχήσει because of boasting ITr 4:1; cp. IPol 5:2. Abs. 1 Cor 8:11; 15:18; 2 Cl 17:1.—οἱ ἀπολλύμενοι (opp. οἱ σῳζόμενοι, as in Plut., Mor. 469d) those who are lost 1 Cor 1:18; 2 Cor 2:15; 4:3; 2 Th 2:10; 2 Cl 1:4; 2:5. For this τὸ ἀπολωλός Lk 19:10 (Mt 18:10 v.l.—Ezk 34:4, 16). τὰ ἀπολλύμενα 2 Cl 2:7 (cp. SIG 417, 9 τὰ τε ἀπολωλότα ἐκ τ. ἱεροῦ ἀνέσωσαν). S. also 3b end.
    β. of things be lost, pass away, be ruined (Jos., Bell. 2, 650 of Jerusalem; Tat. 17, 2 πάθος … ἀπολλύμενον) of bursting wineskins Mt 9:17; Mk 2:22; Lk 5:37; fading beauty Js 1:11; transitory beauty of gold
    1 Pt 1:7. AcPl Ha 2, 24; [χρυσὸς]| γὰρ ἀπόλλυται 9:8f; passing splendor Rv 18:14 (w. ἀπό as Jer 10:11; Da 7:17). Of earthly food J 6:27; spoiled honey Hm 5, 1, 5; σαρκὸς ἀπολλυμένης AcPlCor 2:15. Of the heavens which, like the earth, will pass away Hb 1:11 (Ps 101:27). Of the end of the world Hv 4, 3, 3, Of the way of the godless, which is lost in darkness B 11:7 (Ps 1:6). μὴ … τὸ μνημόσυνον [ὑμῶν]| ἀπόλιτε (read ἀπόληται) AcPl Ha 1, 22f.
    to fail to obtain what one expects or anticipates, lose out on, lose (X., Pla.+; PPetr III, 51, 5; POxy 743, 23; PFay 111, 3ff; Sir 6:3; 9:6; 27:16 al.; Tob 7:6 BA; 4 Macc 2:14; Tat. 8, τὸν ἐρώμενον; 15, 1) τ. μισθόν lose the reward Mt 10:42; Mk 9:41; Hs 5, 6, 7. δραχμήν (Dio Chrys. 70 [20], 25) Lk 15:8f; ἀ. ἃ ἠργασάμεθα lose what we have worked for 2J 8. διαθήκην B 4:7, 8. τὴν ζωὴν τ. ἀνθρώπων Hm 2:1; cp. Hs 8, 6, 6; 8, 7, 5; 8, 8, 2f and 5. τὴν ἐλπίδα m 5, 1, 7.
    to lose someth. that one already has or be separated from a normal connection, lose, be lost
    ⓐ act. w. colloq. flavor ἵνα πᾶν ὃ δέδωκέν μοι μή ἀπολέσω ἐξ αὐτοῦ that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me J 6:39 (B-D-F §466, 3 on Semitic assoc.; Rob. 437; 753).—ἀ. τὴν ψυχήν (cp. Sir 20:22) lose one’s life Mt 10:39; 16:25; Mk 8:35; Lk 9:24; 17:33; cp. J 12:25. For this ἀ. ἑαυτόν lose oneself Lk 9:25 (similar in form is Tyrtaeus [VII b.c.], Fgm. 8 Diehl2 lines 11–14: ‘One who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it’).
    ⓑ mid. (Antiphon: Diels, Vorsokrat. 87, Fgm. 54 ἀπολόμενον ἀργύριον; X., Symp. 1, 5; 1 Km 9:3; Tat. 9, 2) ISm 10:1. Of falling hair Lk 21:18; Ac 27:34; a member or organ of the body Mt 5:29f; remnants of food J 6:12. Of wine that has lost its flavor Hm 12, 5, 3.— Of sheep gone astray Mt 10:6; 15:24; Lk 15:4, 6; B 5:12 (cp. Jer 27:6; Ezk 34:4; Ps 118:176). Of a lost son Lk 15:24 (Artem. 4, 33 ἡ γυνὴ … τ. υἱὸν ἀπώλεσε καὶ … εὗρεν αὐτόν); of humanity in general ἀπολλύμενος ἐζητήθη ἵνα ζωοποιηθῇ διὰ τῆς υἱοθεσίας when lost, humanity was sought, so that it might regain life through acceptance into sonship AcPlCor 2:8 (cp. 1bα.—JSchniewind, D. Gleichn. vom verl. Sohn ’40). ἀ. θεῷ be lost to God Hs 8, 6, 4 (cod. A for ἀπέθανον).—B. 758. DELG s.v. ὄλλυμι. M-M. TW.[1]
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [1] Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000).
    Link to 1952 edition.

    http://lareopage.free.fr/a&g/main.htm (3rd ed., pp. 115–116). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
     
  19. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Clare, I hope you will be willing to spend a little time and watch my video that I shared in the Opening Post. I spent a lot of prayerful time and effort to answer the exact question you just asked. I've gotten a LOT of (unsought) very positive feedback on the video. Give it a try and let me know what you think. I realize that you might not be able to watch all 105 minutes in one sitting. God bless you!
     
  20. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As you seem to understand well, annihilationism allows for any finite amount of suffering either prior to or in the process of finally perishing. It's up to God and what God deems just. It is possible that some will perish slowly. I do believe there will be some type of proportional suffering related to sins, how much they knew of God's will, and whatever other factors God in His wisdom takes into account.
     
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