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apollumi: the Word that Tells us What Happens to People in Hell

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Mark Corbett, May 1, 2021.

  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Reminds of the bumper sticker that says something like:
    JESUS IS COMING and boy is he ever angry!
     
  2. Aabbie James

    Aabbie James Maintain love and truth in perfect balance

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    Who among us fully understands just how Holy is our God? When we've been fully sanctified, perhaps we will see clearly the fullness of the Glory of God and the perfection of His Justice.

    As written in the scriptures, man is created in the likeness of God, breathing into us a spirit. But don't confuse God's benevolent love for His creation with His Salvific love for the righteous.

    Once we are created, our souls are immortal, the righteous are destined for eternal life, while the wicked sent to eternal punishment in hell.

    Jesus called all believers to preach the true Gospel of Jesus Christ to all peoples unto the ends of this Earth. For our main purpose is to bring Glory to God in all things we do, making disciples of men. All praise, honor, glory, and power to God. Hallelujah! Amen
     
  3. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    What's the alternative?
    To just accept that God is a cosmic tyrant with anger management issues?
    What's wrong with this picture?

    Jesus taught us to love our enemies. This is godly behavior. But what do you claim God will do to his enemies? We make God out to be worse than a pagan, or a tax collector. (traitor)

    Matthew 5:43-48
    “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
     
  4. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Amen! Aabbie, we agree about this statement you made at the end our your comment. And this agreement is deeper and more important than the issue we disagree on which I will mention below. May God strengthen you and all of us to serve God and use the strength and gifts He gives us together with other Christians to make disciples!


    The Bible never says that all human souls are created immortal. In fact, the Bible consistently and repeatedly says that only those saved through faith by believing in Jesus will be given eternal life. Here is one example of that teaching:

    ESV John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
     
  5. sawdust

    sawdust Well-Known Member

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    Your understanding?

    I've seen the wrath of God and it has nothing to do with anger management and everything to do with cleansing. I thought you understood that when you quoted the following Mark and Malachi verses:

    Mark 9:49
    Everyone will be salted with fire.

    Malachi 3:2
    But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

    You do realise we are all judged with fire, yes?

    1Cor.3:11-13 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.

    I am very much looking forward to the Day. :)
     
  6. sawdust

    sawdust Well-Known Member

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    And if that's what you think I'm saying then you really have no idea what I'm talking about. :)
     
  7. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    We are actually in agreement on these points.
     
  8. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Not so fast, sir. The nations are typically unbelievers, are they not? And as unbelievers, they are consigned to the LoF by dint of Revelation 21:8, nest-ce pas? So how then is it that they are subsequently prescribed the divine arborial balm in Revelation 22:2?
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  9. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Sing with me:

    Nothing in my hands I bring,
    Simply to Thy cross I cling;
    Naked, come to Thee for dress,
    Helpless, look to Thee for grace:
    Foul, I to the fountain fly,
    Wash me, Savior, or I die.
    Hymn: Rock of Ages, cleft for me
     
  10. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    I played it on a harmonica instead.
     
  11. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Then you should check out God's view of man after the flood in Genesis 8:21:
    "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, for every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood."

    What was God's view of Esau? "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated," before they were ever born.
     
  12. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Which is the fire of suffering in dealing radically with our sin ("cut it off, pluck it out") in the previous verses (9:43-47),
    in order to avoid the lake of fire, which is not a "salting."

    Good description of Jesus of Nazareth in the first century.
     
  13. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    UR-ites think this means everyone will be saved. "Salt" is never involved in the salvation process. The offering must be pure before it is salted.
    Leviticus 2:13
    13 And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt.

     
  14. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    As long as it's not a squeezebox.
    upload_2021-5-8_17-6-29.jpeg

    (In case it's too hard to see, the angel is saying 'Welcome to heaven, here's your harp'. The devil says 'Welcome to hell, here's your accordion.')
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  15. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Hmmm. I wonder what the hidden significance is between accordion and harp? I used to play at playing the guitar but certain joint diseases , the fingers don't always function correctly. I have to constantly correct what I've typed. Fingers don't remember where the keys are. My picture was taken during the last year of FDR's second term.
     
  16. sawdust

    sawdust Well-Known Member

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    While I found the cartoon funny I must admit I had a friend who was German and played the accordion. We had a lot of fun when he cracked it out and played various polkas and a few German folk songs. That was back in the day when I still had the energy to dance the night away. ;) :D
     
  17. Aabbie James

    Aabbie James Maintain love and truth in perfect balance

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    Jesus is unambiguous. He says to the saved, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world” (Matt. 25:34). He says to the lost, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matt. 25:41).

    At judgement Jesus plainly sets forth in His message on the sheep and goats: “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life” (Matt. 25:46).

    The punishment of the lost in hell is coextensive to the bliss of the righteous in heaven—both are everlasting.
     
  18. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    ..Some folks argue that "aionios" translated "eternal" in the KJV and other versions, never means "eternal" but supposedly means "age during" or some such nonsense.
    Greek is now, and for 2000+ years has been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the “literal” Greek Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””aiōnios,”“kolasis” etc?
    EOB, footnote pg. 180
    ……“Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be
    ……luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to
    ……be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of
    ……the damned (“the lake of’ fire”).”
    = = = = = = = = = =
    The Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96

    Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
    = = = = = = = = = =
    KJV Romans 16:26 [EOB 14:25]
    26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αιωνιου/aiōniou] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
    Paul, the same writer in the same writing, the book of Romans, uses αιωνιου/aiōniou, in Rom 16:26 synonymous with αιδιος/aidios in Rom 1:20, below.
    Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
    Scholars unanimously agree that “aidios” means “eternal/everlasting.”
    This shows conclusively that “aionios” means “eternal/everlasting.”
    = = = = = = = =
    https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf
    The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be viewed/D/L at the above link. For any doubts/questions about the EOB version please refer to the 200 page preface which documents the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  19. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Why do you assume any of those in Revelation 21:8 are meaning any of those in Revelation 22:2? The following proves they can't be.

    Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Compare these with those in Revelation 21:8.

    Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    Does it look like anyone in Revelation 21:8 are blessed and holy, and that they did His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city?

    Let's also look at Revelation 22:2.

    Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    This verse says---and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    Next let's look at Revelation 21:24.

    Revelation 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.


    Does it look like anyone in Revelation 21:8 are among the nations of them which are saved, and that they shall walk in the light of it?

    And finally let's look at Revelation 2:7.

    Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

    Does it look like anyone in Revelation 21:8 are among them that overcometh, and that Jesus then gives them to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God? Does it look like anyone in Revelation 21:8 are in the paradise of God?

    If the tree of life is connected with immortality, and that immortality obviously means to live forever, how is it that anyone in Revelation 21:8 can also live for forever in order to not contradict ECT that many believe the Bible is teaching, if they don't have access to the tree of life?
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  20. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Aabbie, according to Matthew 25:46, does everyone live forever or does only one group of people live forever? I'm not trying to ask a tricky or complex theological question, just a simple reading comprehension question.
     
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