Apocalypse of the final days - the wood in the forest

[Douggg]

1. "Spot the odd one out":

(1) The "Woman" which was hidden from the face of the "serpent"
for 3.5 "times" [Rev 12]

2. "Spot the false statement":

(3) The "Kings" that are "given into his hand" [into the Anti-Christ's hand]
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 7]

It's the saints that are given into his hand:

And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and plot to change times and laws. And they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and one-half time.

Why did you change it to "kings"?

We cannot go through the rest when you have already manipulated the scriptures to have one that doesn't belong in the final 3.5 years of the Age, and one where you change it from saints to "kings" given into the beast's hands.

Who are you replying to with your post?

To address a particular poster, you can type @ followed by the poster's name. At the start of your reply post.

 

[Douggg]

The mistake is yours. They prophesy for 1,260 days (3.5 lunar years) and at the end of this period they are killed. It's the same period as the 3.5 year reign of the beast.

Next time, I suggest you type @Douggg

Most people choose the "reply" option which what the other poster said is seen as well.

 

[Zao is life]

No, the 1260 days is before the world is at the very worst of the great tribulation, and having gathered it armies at Armageddon, and God pouring out the 7th vial of his wrath in Revelation 16.

The peoples of the world would hardly be exchanging presents with each other at that time in Revelation 16:16-21 because the beast had just killed the two witnesses. Most proof that the 7th angel sounds right after day 1263.5 on the 2520 day timeline.

The 1260 days is on my chart. It is the first half of the 7 years.

By the same token then the beast would hardly be able to muster a force for Armageddon. There is no reason why they would not be rejoicing over the death of the two witnesses:

And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will (Rev 11:5-6).

I'd say that by the time the two witnesses are killed, people must hate them, so that they rejoice over their death (Revelation 11). The cities of the nations only fall when the seventh vial is poured out (Rev 16). There is absolutely no reason to make the false assumptions you make about the timing of the 1,260 days (3.5 lunar years) prophesying of the two witnesses. Revelation 14 shows the gospel going out into all the world before the final harvest is reaped.

You make a lot of false assumptions as you go along.

 

[Zao is life]

Rev 12:14

Is the PROBLEM that you do not see the "kings"
represent the "saints".... just like the "Kings" in Rev 17:12-13, 17
also represent the Last Saints?

.

Err no. Assuming that the 10 kings = the saints (if that's what you are implying) is quite obviously your problem, not mine.

 

[Zao is life]

Next time, I suggest you type @Douggg

Most people choose the "reply" option which what the other poster said is seen as well.

My post replied to his post and I used the reply button. Quote the post # you are complaining about. I can do a screen-shot and post it here to prove to you that if my post is quoting someone else's post, then I used the reply button.

Or are you just choosing to be childish?

OR.. is it because you are posting as different people here that you are becoming confused?

 

[Douggg]

My post replied to his post and I used the reply button. Quote the post # you are complaining about. I can do a screen-shot and post it here to prove to you that if my post is quoting someone else's post, then I used the reply button.

post #53 in particular. It is not stated who you are replying to.

Or are you just choosing to be childish?

OR.. is it because you are posting as different people here that you are becoming confused?

I was not being childish, nor am I posting as different people.

I was just trying to be helpful. To you and to others who are reading your posts to know who you are replying to.

Lately, there seems to be a heightened combative tone in the forum going on now with the advent of some relatively new posters. imo.

 

[Zao is life]

Rev 12:14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle,
that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished
for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


That one looks fine to me... do YOU see a problem?


Dan 7:24-25
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise:
and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first,
and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against
the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think
to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until
a time and times and the dividing of time.


That one looks fine also... do YOU see a problem?
As you can see... I DID NOT change it to "kings"...
that is what the Scripture says. Do you not understand
these "kings" represent the Last Saints?


Is the PROBLEM that you do not see the "kings"
represent the "saints".... just like the "Kings" in Rev 17:12-13, 17
also represent the Last Saints?

.

The woman of Rev 12 gave birth the the Messiah. When (in the days when) He was caught up to God and to His throne, the dragon spewed water at her but she was protected.

Take note: The Messiah was crucified in the midst of Daniel's 70th week. For 3.5 years after that, the gospel was preached to the woman (the nation) who had given birth to the Messiah. Then Stephen was stoned. It was only after this that the gospel was taken to the Gentiles. So the devil was enraged at the woman and went to make war with "the rest of her seed which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ".

It's you who places the 3.5 years that the woman is protected in the final 3.5 years of the age - not Revelation 12. Bear in mind that it's highly symbolic language being used:

Rev 12:5-6 And she bore a son, a male, who is going to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her child was caught up to God and to His throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, so that they might nourish her there a thousand, two hundred and sixty days."

(That's the time when the gospel was being preached to the Jews in the 3.5 years following the ascension of our Lord).

Rev 12:13-17 "And when the dragon saw that he was cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who bore the man child.
And two wings of a great eagle were given to the woman, so that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the serpent's face.

And the serpent cast out of his mouth water like a flood after the woman, so that he might cause her to be carried away by the river. And the earth helped the woman. And the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged over the woman, and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

It was the preaching of the apostles which nourished the woman. Spiritually, she was in the wilderness of unbelief due to her rejection of Christ:

But with whom was He grieved forty years? Was it not with those who had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness? (Heb 3:17).

You have chosen to read a literal "wilderness" into a passage which is using symbolic language from start to finish, ripped the verses out of their context, and shoved them into the final 3.5 years of the Age. You do this a lot with scripture, I notice.

 

[Zao is life]

post #53 in particular. It is not stated who you are replying to.

The combat you mentioned came from you by falsely claiming I never showed who I was replying to. Here's the screen-shots from my screen. It shows my quote of my reply to 5th kingdom's post, which is quoted at the top:

In post # 14 I first posted a quote of scriptures at the top , then quoted what Dougg said, then repeated the scriptures I posted at the top. If you had scrolled down you would have seen it:

Making false accusations about me not showing whose post I'm replying to, is passive-aggression and I take it it's meant to divert attention away from the subject of this thread.

 

[Douggg]

Making false accusations about me not showing whose post I'm replying to, is passive-aggression and I take it it's meant to divert attention away from the subject of this thread.

I was just wanting to know who you were replying to and what post you were replying to, so I could follow the discussion. And how you can make easier for the rest of us to follow your discussion.

By choosing "reply", the system's default is to quote the prior poster's post at the top of your reply.

 

[Zao is life]

So you REALLY don't understand
(a) that the Two Witnesses represent the church?

The two witnesses do not represent "the" church. Maybe two congregations, at a stretch - but more likely, two individuals.

So you REALLY don't understand
(b) that AFTER their "testimony is finished" represents the END of the Great Commission?

You keep changing the words of scripture to suit your imagination. It says when they complete their testimony OR when they shall have finished their testimony they will be killed. 3.5 days later they rise when Christ appears in the heavens - it's the end of the beast. His reign lasts 3.5 DAYS after the two witnesses are killed.

(c) that they are KILLED after their "testimony is finished" (after the Great Commssion)
(d) that they arise after 3.5 days... after the end of the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast?

the Great Commission started in the day Jesus appointed His apostles to go out and share the gospel. It will continue until Christ returns. The Two Witnesses will prophesy for the final 3.5 years of it (1,260 days = 3.5 lunar years). 3.5 days ater they will have been killed, it's the end of the beast's 3.5 year reign.

And... it appears I was right about the woman being hidden for 3.5 years since that
is the period of the Last Beast

No - the woman refers to the woman who brought the Messiah into the world and she was protected from the dragon for the 3.5 years following the ascension of Christ.

And... it appears I was right about the "kings" of Daniel 9 representing the Last Saints

In your imagination. Imagination is a very powerful thing.

So... it appears there is a direct correlation between all the 3.5 periods I showed you.
Why is this "news" to you?

The woman is the odd one out - and the saints who are given into the hand of the final beast are not the 10 kings. It's your jumble in your interpretation of these prophecies, not mine.

 

[Zao is life]

No, the 1260 days is before the world is at the very worst of the great tribulation, and having gathered it armies at Armageddon, and God pouring out the 7th vial of his wrath in Revelation 16.

The peoples of the world would hardly be exchanging presents with each other at that time in Revelation 16:16-21 because the beast had just killed the two witnesses. Most proof that the 7th angel sounds right after day 1263.5 on the 2520 day timeline.

The 1260 days is on my chart. It is the first half of the 7 years.

You have your chart in another thread too, even though it's wrong. No "first half" and "second half" of "7 years" is mentioned in the Revelation or in Daniel (aside from the 70th week during which Messiah preached, minstered and was crucified) - other than that, only the 3.5 years of the last days of the Age are mentioned by Daniel and in the Revelation.

It's the reason your chart is wrong (although correct to you).

 

[Zao is life]

I was just wanting to know who you were replying to and what post you were replying to, so I could follow the discussion. And how you can make easier for the rest of us to follow your discussion.

By choosing "reply", the system's default is to quote the prior poster's post at the top of your reply.

Which, as the screen-shots show, is what I did, and what I always do. So if you don't see the name of the person who I quoted in my post, speak to the system admins. I proved in those screen-shots to you that I clicked Reply and replied to the posts.

 

[Douggg]

Which, as the screen-shots show, is what I did, and what I always do. So if you don't see the name of the person who I quoted in my post, speak to the system admins. I proved in those screen-shots to you that I clicked Reply and replied to the posts.

Something must be haywire in the system, because on my screen it did not show up that way.

A day or so ago I was getting a 508 error on the cloud - so that is where the error seems to have been.

 

[Douggg]

ou have your chart in another thread too, even though it's wrong. No "first half" and "second half" of "7 years" is mentioned in the Revelation or in Daniel (aside from the 70th week during which Messiah preached, minstered and was crucified) - other than that, only the 3.5 years of the last days of the Age are mentioned by Daniel and in the Revelation.

It does not say first half or second half in Revelation or Daniel, but it is implied by Daniel 9:27 and because the 7 years can be totaled by the elements in Revelation 11 and Revelation 12.

Revelation 11:
1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (1263.5 days) = 2520 days the 7 years

Revelation 12:
1260 days + the war in the second heaven time + the time, times, half time = 2520 days the 7 years

And what is equally important is that the person is the Antichrist only for the time he is the king of Israel. At other times, the person is the king of the Roman Empire.

 

[Douggg]

The two witnesses do not represent "the" church. Maybe two congregations, at a stretch - but more likely, two individuals.

You keep changing the words of scripture to suit your imagination. It says when they complete their testimony OR when they shall have finished their testimony they will be killed. 3.5 days later they rise when Christ appears in the heavens - it's the end of the beast. His reign lasts 3.5 DAYS after the two witnesses are killed.


the Great Commission started in the day Jesus appointed His apostles to go out and share the gospel. It will continue until Christ returns. The Two Witnesses will prophesy for the final 3.5 years of it (1,260 days = 3.5 lunar years). 3.5 days ater they will have been killed, it's the end of the beast's 3.5 year reign.

No - the woman refers to the woman who brought the Messiah into the world and she was protected from the dragon for the 3.5 years following the ascension of Christ.

In your imagination. Imagination is a very powerful thing.

The woman is the odd one out - and the saints who are given into the hand of the final beast are not the 10 kings. It's your jumble in your interpretation of these prophecies, not mine.

I took a screenshot of your post to show you what I see on my screen...

Could you please take a screenshot of your same post #70 of how it appears on your screen?

 

[Timtofly]

Revelation 14 tells you that is is a harvest, and it explicitly uses the word "harvest"
* The gospel is going out into all the world accompanied with a warning about the consequences to those who worship the beast and its image, and receive a mark in their foreheads or in their hands.
* We are told that those who die in the Lord from now on are blessed.
* Christ harvests His people from the earth - it once again reaffirms Matthew 24:29-31.
* Then God's wrath comes upon those still on the earth - "the grapes of wrath".

The Revelation specifically calls the gathering of the elect who refuse to worship the beast or receive his mark, a harvest.

Then why are the seals not considered a harvest? Especially of the church. Why are the Trumpets not a harvest of the sheep and goats? Why are the Thunders not a harvest of the wheat and tares? Why do we all skip the first 3 harvests and head straight for the destruction of Satan and claim that is the only harvest?

 

[Zao is life]

Something must be haywire in the system, because on my screen it did not show up that way.

A day or so ago I was getting a 508 error on the cloud - so that is where the error seems to have been.

Check if you have anyone on ignore. If you do you won't see the person's posts and you won't see the person's posts quoted by me or anyone else, so it will look like I'm replying to no one because you don't see the quoted post.

 

[Zao is life]

I took a screenshot of your post to show you what I see on my screen...

Could you please take a screenshot of your same post #70 of how it appears on your screen?

View attachment 280154

Check if you have the person below on "Ignore":

 

[Timtofly]

So you REALLY don't understand
(a) that the Two Witnesses represent the church?
(b) that AFTER their "testimony is finished" represents the END of the Great Commission?
(c) that they are KILLED after their "testimony is finished" (after the Great Commssion)
(d) that they arise after 3.5 days... after the end of the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast?

And... it appears I was right about the woman being hidden for 3.5 years since that
is the period of the Last Beast

And... it appears I was right about the "kings" of Daniel 9 representing the Last Saints

So... it appears there is a direct correlation between all the 3.5 periods I showed you.
Why is this "news" to you?

Do you now want to cover the OTHER 3.5 periods I posted...
or did you just plan on ignoring those Scriptures?

.

The 2 witnesses are not the church. Was only Moses the church in the wilderness, or an actual man?

Was Jesus Christ a literal human, or just a representation of a new church?

You cannot take two literal humans and say they are the church. The JW's or any one else cannot take 144K Jewish male virgins and claim they represent they whole history of Jews, much less the church. People need to stop doing it.

The chapters where there are harlots and beast, have all the fun you want. The chapters that state Satan the false prophet and the image, are not kingdoms and past time lines. John points out the false prophet, the first beast, did live in the past, but has returned, from a deadly wound, to the present. All the seals, trumpets, thunders are short times of judgments we are going through today. It is not going to get any better. It is the harvest of all humanity.

 

[Zao is life]

It does not say first half or second half in Revelation or Daniel, but it is implied by Daniel 9:27 and because the 7 years can be totaled by the elements in Revelation 11 and Revelation 12.

Revelation 11:
1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (1263.5 days) = 2520 days the 7 years

Revelation 12:
1260 days + the war in the second heaven time + the time, times, half time = 2520 days the 7 years

And what is equally important is that the person is the Antichrist only for the time he is the king of Israel. At other times, the person is the king of the Roman Empire.



View attachment 280153

The reason it's incorrect is because the Revelation and Daniel are silent on the first half of the final seven years. The reason you think it isn't is because you think that Daniel 9:26 says the Messiah was cut off during the 62 weeks. Doesn't matter whether you believe it was in the last week of the 7+62 weeks (or the last part of the 69th week). Daniel did not write that. He wrote that the Messiah would be cut off after the 69 weeks.