Apocalypse of the final days - the wood in the forest

[Zao is life]

And again I ask, is this a harvest?

No one on earth is going out of earth, as to a promised land. All humanity are going to die, and end up in the lake of fire.

The Second Coming is after the tribulation of those days. The rapture happens at the 6th seal. This is the thief in the night removal. Once it happens, there will be no more surprises.

Revelation 14 tells you that is is a harvest, and it explicitly uses the word "harvest"
* The gospel is going out into all the world accompanied with a warning about the consequences to those who worship the beast and its image, and receive a mark in their foreheads or in their hands.
* We are told that those who die in the Lord from now on are blessed.
* Christ harvests His people from the earth - it once again reaffirms Matthew 24:29-31.
* Then God's wrath comes upon those still on the earth - "the grapes of wrath".

The Revelation specifically calls the gathering of the elect who refuse to worship the beast or receive his mark, a harvest.

 

[Zao is life]

"After" is not a problem. The messiah arrived in Jerusalem on Palm Sunday hailed as the messiah and cutoff 4 days later.

View attachment 280121


View attachment 280122

After summarily dismissing DavidPT from my thread and telling him to start his own thread if he wants to comment in this thread, you post this again a second time. Even though I don't appreciate you telling a poster not to post what he has to say in a thread I started and to start his own thread, I responded to your post above a second time - but don't expect another response.

 

[Zao is life]

David, I was trying to get Fullness of the Gentiles, to think about the timeframes, where they would go. To build a framework of thinking for making a timeline chart.

But he doesn't even recognize the 7 years. So I can't connect with him. We are too far apart on too many basic issues.

If you want to discuss the placement of the 7th trumpet, then please start another thread.

No. David is welcome to post whatever he wants to in this thread. Dismiss yourself if you want any poster to be dismissed from the thread.

 

[5thKingdom]

Revelation 14 tells you that is is a harvest, and it explicitly uses the word "harvest"
* The gospel is going out into all the world accompanied with a warning about the consequences to those who worship the beast and its image, and receive a mark in their foreheads or in their hands.
* We are told that those who die in the Lord from now on are blessed.
* Christ harvests His people from the earth - it once again reaffirms Matthew 24:29-31.
* Then God's wrath comes upon those still on the earth - "the grapes of wrath".

The Revelation specifically calls the gathering of the elect who refuse to worship the beast or receive his mark, a harvest.

Since you mentioned the "Beast" and the "image" and the "mark"
can you please DEFINE what those words represent in history?

And did any other Kingdoms (besides the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] aka Revelation Beast have
a "Beast" or an "image" or a "mark"?

Thanks
.

 

[Zao is life]

Since you mentioned the "Beast" and the "image" and the "mark"
can you please DEFINE what those words represent in history?

Nothing. Because they only apply to the final kingdom which is going to be destroyed by Christ when He returns.

And did any other Kingdoms (besides the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] aka Revelation Beast have
a "Beast" or an "image" or a "mark"?

Thanks

There isn't only one Biblical type of what the kingdom the Revelation is talking about. You can place it all in the past if that's where your desire wants it to be, but Jesus did not return and destroy any previous kingdom of any previous beast (Roman or other) that is a Biblical foreshadow (type) of what the Revelation is talking about.

 

[5thKingdom]

Christ's Revelation was meant for all saints,
but especially for those who will be living during the final 3 1/2 years of the Age.
.

Do you see any relationship between the 3.5 years you mentioned
and the 3.5 years mentioned below... or do you think they are just
a coincidence?


(1) The "Woman" which was hidden from the face of the "serpent"
for 3.5 "times" [Rev 12]


(2) The "Holy People" whose "power is scattered" by the Anti-Christ
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 12]


(3) The "Kings" that are "given into his hand" [into the Anti-Christ's hand]
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 7]


(4) The "Witnesses" which are first "overcome" and are later "killed" by Satan
for 3.5 "days" [Rev 11]


(5) The "Holy City" which the Anti-Christ "treads under foot" for forty-two months or
for 3.5 "years" [Rev 11]


(6) The "Ruler of the Last Saints" as the Anti-Christ "makes war" for forty-two months or
for 3.5 "years" [Rev 13]


Note: And I am not even mentioning the 3.5 "watches of the night" of the
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]


Do you see a connection - or are all these just a coincidence

.

 

[Zao is life]

Why would he, when both of those time periods do not end at the Return.

The 1335 days starts at the 7 year mid point and ends 75 days after the Return, on the day the Temple will be re-dedicated.

The 2300 evenings and mornings, is 1150 days, which is the exact time from when A4E killed a pig on the Altar, in 167 BC and when Judas Maccabees re-dedicated the old Temple, in 164 BC. Past history.
These are just two of your 'chart' errors. That is why I and many others reject it in its entirety, although it does have some things right.

That's very interesting. The "7-year midpoint" which you are talking about is the beginning of the reign of the beast, according to Daniel and the Revelation.

 

[5thKingdom]

There isn't only one Biblical type of what the kingdom the Revelation is talking about. You can place it all in the past if that's where your desire wants it to be, but Jesus did not return and destroy any previous kingdom of any previous beast (Roman or other) that is a Biblical foreshadow (type) of what the Revelation is talking about.

I asked you:
Since you mentioned the "Beast" and the "image" and the "mark"
can you please DEFINE what those words represent in history?


And your reply was"
Nothing


That is a strange answer... don't you think?
Do you KNOW what the "image" represents?
Do you KNOW what the "mark" represents?


You said:
Because they only apply to the final kingdom which is going to be destroyed
by Christ when He returns


But there were THREE OTHER "Beasts" on earth before the Revelation Beast...
why would you assume they did not have an "image" or a "mark"


You said:
There isn't only one Biblical type of what the kingdom the Revelation is talking about.
You can place it all in the past if that's where your desire wants it to be, but Jesus did
not return and destroy any previous kingdom of any previous beast (Roman or other)
that is a Biblical foreshadow (type) of what the Revelation is talking about.


No, I don't think (nor did I make any indication of thinking) that Jesus returned to
destroy any of the previous "Beasts" or "Kingdoms"... I simply asked you if any of
those previous "beasts" or "kingdoms" had an "image" or a "mark" like the Last Beast.
And I asked if you could DEFINE the words you were using?

Since you did NOT DEFINE those words, is it safe to assume you can not?

.

 

[5thKingdom]

That's very interesting. The "7-year midpoint" which you are talking about is the beginning of the reign of the beast, according to Daniel and the Revelation.

In other words the reign of the Fourth Beast would be 3.5 years...
does that have any correlation to these other 3.5 periods?
Or is it a coincidence?


(1) The "Woman" which was hidden from the face of the "serpent"
for 3.5 "times" [Rev 12]


(2) The "Holy People" whose "power is scattered" by the Anti-Christ
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 12]


(3) The "Kings" that are "given into his hand" [into the Anti-Christ's hand]
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 7]


(4) The "Witnesses" which are first "overcome" and are later "killed" by Satan
for 3.5 "days" [Rev 11]


(5) The "Holy City" which the Anti-Christ "treads under foot" for forty-two months or
for 3.5 "years" [Rev 11]


(6) The "Ruler of the Last Saints" as the Anti-Christ "makes war" for forty-two months or
for 3.5 "years" [Rev 13]


Note: And I am not even mentioning the 3.5 "watches of the night" of the
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]

.

 

[Zao is life]

Do you see any relationship between the 3.5 years you mentioned
and the 3.5 years mentioned below... or do you think they are just
a coincidence?


(1) The "Woman" which was hidden from the face of the "serpent"
for 3.5 "times" [Rev 12]


(2) The "Holy People" whose "power is scattered" by the Anti-Christ
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 12]


(3) The "Kings" that are "given into his hand" [into the Anti-Christ's hand]
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 7]


(4) The "Witnesses" which are first "overcome" and are later "killed" by Satan
for 3.5 "days" [Rev 11]


(5) The "Holy City" which the Anti-Christ "treads under foot" for forty-two months or
for 3.5 "years" [Rev 11]


(6) The "Ruler of the Last Saints" as the Anti-Christ "makes war" for forty-two months or
for 3.5 "years" [Rev 13]


Note: And I am not even mentioning the 3.5 "watches of the night" of the
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]


Do you see a connection - or are all these just a coincidence

.

You're not making yourself very clear. Firstly the passage in Revelation 12 is talking about what took place when the dragon was cast out of heaven - almost 2,000 years ago.

The two witnesses prophesy for the full duration of the final 3.5 years and when they complete their testimony, then the beast kills them. How do we know this?

"And I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those dwelling on the earth, even to every nation and kindred and tongue and people, saying with a great voice, Fear God and give glory to Him! For the hour of His judgment has come. And worship Him who made the heaven and the earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

And another angel followed, saying, The great city, Babylon, has fallen, has fallen; because of the wine of the anger of her fornication; she has made all nations to drink.

And a third angel followed them, saying with a great voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

Here is the patience of the saints. Here are the ones who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from Heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they shall rest from their labors, and their works follow them.

It's all in Revelation chapter 14 - then we read of the final harvest at the close of the chapter - and Christ is the one who reaps it. The moment the saints who went through this period of the great tribulation of saints at the hand of the beast are lifted up, the final vial comes upon the earth, upon those who worshiped the beast and received his mark.

The people of God were still in Egypt when the plagues were coming upon Egypt. It's in the middle of John writing about the 6th bowl of wrath that Jesus interjects to say He is coming as a thief and exhorts His people to watch and to keep their garments.

Anyone whose desires want them to see a Pre-Trib rapture will see a Pre-Trib rapture.

 

[5thKingdom]

You're not making yourself very clear. Firstly the passage in Revelation 12 is talking about what took place when the dragon was cast out of heaven - almost 2,000 years ago.

The two witnesses prophesy for the full duration of the final 3.5 years and when they complete their testimony, then the beast kills them. How do we know this?

"And I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those dwelling on the earth, even to every nation and kindred and tongue and people, saying with a great voice, Fear God and give glory to Him! For the hour of His judgment has come. And worship Him who made the heaven and the earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

And another angel followed, saying, The great city, Babylon, has fallen, has fallen; because of the wine of the anger of her fornication; she has made all nations to drink.

And a third angel followed them, saying with a great voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

Here is the patience of the saints. Here are the ones who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from Heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they shall rest from their labors, and their works follow them.

It's all in Revelation chapter 14 - then we read of the final harvest at the close of the chapter - and Christ is the one who reaps it. The moment the saints who went through this period of the great tribulation of saints at the hand of the beast are lifted up, the final vial comes upon the earth, upon those who worshiped the beast and received his mark.

The people of God were still in Egypt when the plagues were coming upon Egypt. It's in the middle of John writing about the 6th bowl of wrath that Jesus interjects to say He is coming as a thief and exhorts His people to watch and to keep their garments.

Anyone whose desires want them to see a Pre-Trib rapture will see a Pre-Trib rapture.

I am not disputing anything you said about Revelation 14.
So it is pointless for you to preach on Rev 14.

My question was simple enough - I don't see HOW it confused you.
It asked if you see a correlation between all these 3.5 periods or whether
you do not see any relationship... even though they all relate to the Last Beast.


(1) The "Woman" which was hidden from the face of the "serpent"
for 3.5 "times" [Rev 12]


(2) The "Holy People" whose "power is scattered" by the Anti-Christ
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 12]


(3) The "Kings" that are "given into his hand" [into the Anti-Christ's hand]
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 7]


(4) The "Witnesses" which are first "overcome" and are later "killed" by Satan
for 3.5 "days" [Rev 11]


(5) The "Holy City" which the Anti-Christ "treads under foot" for forty-two months or
for 3.5 "years" [Rev 11]


(6) The "Ruler of the Last Saints" as the Anti-Christ "makes war" for forty-two months or
for 3.5 "years" [Rev 13]


Note: And I am not even mentioning the 3.5 "watches of the night" of the
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]

.

 

[Zao is life]

I asked you:
Since you mentioned the "Beast" and the "image" and the "mark"
can you please DEFINE what those words represent in history?


And your reply was"
Nothing


That is a strange answer... don't you think?
Do you KNOW what the "image" represents?
Do you KNOW what the "mark" represents?


You said:
Because they only apply to the final kingdom which is going to be destroyed
by Christ when He returns


But there were THREE OTHER "Beasts" on earth before the Revelation Beast...
why would you assume they did not have an "image" or a "mark"


You said:
There isn't only one Biblical type of what the kingdom the Revelation is talking about.
You can place it all in the past if that's where your desire wants it to be, but Jesus did
not return and destroy any previous kingdom of any previous beast (Roman or other)
that is a Biblical foreshadow (type) of what the Revelation is talking about.


No, I don't think (nor did I make any indication of thinking) that Jesus returned to
destroy any of the previous "Beasts" or "Kingdoms"... I simply asked you if any of
those previous "beasts" or "kingdoms" had an "image" or a "mark" like the Last Beast.
And I asked if you could DEFINE the words you were using?

Since you did NOT DEFINE those words, is it safe to assume you can not?

.

No you are twisting what I said.

THIS is what you asked:

5thKingdom said: ↑
Since you mentioned the "Beast" and the "image" and the "mark"
can you please DEFINE what those words represent in history?

They represent nothing in history. The Revelation is about the final 3.5 years.

The Biblical type of this is Nebuchanezzar erecting an image of himself and causing all peoples, nations and tongues to fall down and worship it, and those who refuse would be cast into the "burning, fiery furnace".

Shadrach, Meshach and Ebednego refused and were thrown into the burning, firey furnce - this is a type of the great tribulation of the Bible - which is the great tribulation of the saints at the hand of the beast - but one like the Son of God was with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in the midst of it, and they remained unharmed. They were delivered out of the furnace by Nebuchadnezzar - but next time around, it will be Christ Himself delivering His people in the final harvest, when He appears in the clouds and tells the two witnesses to "come up here". ALL who died in Christ are resurrected at the same time and those who are still alive and remain will be caught up afterwards, and will meet the Lord in the air together with them.

If you ask a question and I answer your question and you twist what I answered again, I will ignore you and each of your posts.

 

[Zao is life]

I am not disputing anything you said about Revelation 14.
So it is pointless for you to preach on Rev 14.

My question was simple enough - I don't see HOW it confused you.
It asked if you see a correlation between all these 3.5 periods or whether
you do not see any relationship... even though they all relate to the Last Beast.


(1) The "Woman" which was hidden from the face of the "serpent"
for 3.5 "times" [Rev 12]


(2) The "Holy People" whose "power is scattered" by the Anti-Christ
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 12]


(3) The "Kings" that are "given into his hand" [into the Anti-Christ's hand]
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 7]


(4) The "Witnesses" which are first "overcome" and are later "killed" by Satan
for 3.5 "days" [Rev 11]


(5) The "Holy City" which the Anti-Christ "treads under foot" for forty-two months or
for 3.5 "years" [Rev 11]


(6) The "Ruler of the Last Saints" as the Anti-Christ "makes war" for forty-two months or
for 3.5 "years" [Rev 13]


Note: And I am not even mentioning the 3.5 "watches of the night" of the
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]

.

1. "Spot the odd one out":

(1) The "Woman" which was hidden from the face of the "serpent"
for 3.5 "times" [Rev 12]

2. "Spot the false statement":

(3) The "Kings" that are "given into his hand" [into the Anti-Christ's hand]
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 7]

It's the saints that are given into his hand:

And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and plot to change times and laws. And they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and one-half time.

Why did you change it to "kings"?

We cannot go through the rest when you have already manipulated the scriptures to have one that doesn't belong in the final 3.5 years of the Age, and one where you change it from saints to "kings" given into the beast's hands.

 

[5thKingdom]

The two witnesses prophesy for the full duration of the final 3.5 years and when they complete their testimony, then the beast kills them. How do we know this?

Excuse me, you made a mistake the Two Witness (representing the church) do not
testify for 3.5 years... they testify for 1260 days and are KILLED for 3.5 days


Rev 11:3-4
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand
two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Rev 11:7
And when they shall have finished their testimony, [after the 1260 days]
the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them,
and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev 11:11
And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them,
and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither.
And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.


.

 

[5thKingdom]

1. "Spot the odd one out":

(1) The "Woman" which was hidden from the face of the "serpent"
for 3.5 "times" [Rev 12]

2. "Spot the false statement":

(3) The "Kings" that are "given into his hand" [into the Anti-Christ's hand]
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 7]

It's the saints that are given into his hand:

And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and plot to change times and laws. And they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and one-half time.

Why did you change it to "kings"?

We cannot go through the rest when you have already manipulated the scriptures to have one that doesn't belong in the final 3.5 years of the Age, and one where you change it from saints to "kings" given into the beast's hands.

Rev 12:14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle,
that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished
for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


That one looks fine to me... do YOU see a problem?


Dan 7:24-25
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise:
and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first,
and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against
the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think
to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until
a time and times and the dividing of time.


That one looks fine also... do YOU see a problem?
As you can see... I DID NOT change it to "kings"...
that is what the Scripture says. Do you not understand
these "kings" represent the Last Saints?


Is the PROBLEM that you do not see the "kings"
represent the "saints".... just like the "Kings" in Rev 17:12-13, 17
also represent the Last Saints?

.

 

[Zao is life]

Excuse me, you made a mistake the Two Witness (representing the church) do not
testify for 3.5 years... they testify for 1260 days and are KILLED for 3.5 days


Rev 11:3-4
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand
two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Rev 11:7
And when they shall have finished their testimony, [after the 1260 days]
the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them,
and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev 11:11
And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them,
and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither.
And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.


.

The mistake is yours. They prophesy for 1,260 days (3.5 lunar years) and at the end of this period they are killed. It's the same period as the 3.5 year reign of the beast.

 

[5thKingdom]

The mistake is yours. They prophesy for 1,260 days (3.5 lunar years) and at the end of this period they are killed. It's the same period as the 3.5 year reign of the beast.

So you REALLY don't understand
(a) that the Two Witnesses represent the church?
(b) that AFTER their "testimony is finished" represents the END of the Great Commission?
(c) that they are KILLED after their "testimony is finished" (after the Great Commssion)
(d) that they arise after 3.5 days... after the end of the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast?

And... it appears I was right about the woman being hidden for 3.5 years since that
is the period of the Last Beast

And... it appears I was right about the "kings" of Daniel 9 representing the Last Saints

So... it appears there is a direct correlation between all the 3.5 periods I showed you.
Why is this "news" to you?

Do you now want to cover the OTHER 3.5 periods I posted...
or did you just plan on ignoring those Scriptures?

.

 

[5thKingdom]

The mistake is yours. They prophesy for 1,260 days (3.5 lunar years) and at the end of this period they are killed. It's the same period as the 3.5 year reign of the beast.

(1) The "Woman" which was hidden from the face of the "serpent"
for 3.5 "times" [Rev 12] The period of the Revelation Beast


(2) The "Holy People" whose "power is scattered" by the Anti-Christ
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 12] The period of the Revelation Beast


(3) The "Kings" that are "given into his hand" [into the Anti-Christ's hand]
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 7] The period of the Revelation Beast


(4) The "Witnesses" which are first "overcome" and are later "killed" by Satan
for 3.5 "days" [Rev 11] The period of the Revelation Beast


(5) The "Holy City" which the Anti-Christ "treads under foot" for forty-two months or
for 3.5 "years" [Rev 11] The period of the Revelation Beast


(6) The "Ruler of the Last Saints" as the Anti-Christ "makes war" for forty-two months or
for 3.5 "years" [Rev 13] The period of the Revelation Beast


Note: And I am not even mentioning the 3.5 "watches of the night" of the
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] The period of the Revelation Beast


BTW... the 1260 days of the testimony of the Two Witness correlates with the
ministry of Christ and NOT the Rule of the Revelation Beast


.

 

[Douggg]

@DavidPT

No. David is welcome to post whatever he wants to in this thread. Dismiss yourself if you want any poster to be dismissed from the thread.

Fine, if you consider the 7th trumpet timing as part of the topic of this thread - I went back edited my post and removed that sentence. What I was really getting at is I did not want to get into a long discussion between DavidPT and myself on the timing of the the 7th trumpet in your thread. But if you say it's okay. Then that is fine with me.

Here is my timing of when the 7th angel sounds on my chart.

 

[Douggg]

The mistake is yours. They prophesy for 1,260 days (3.5 lunar years) and at the end of this period they are killed. It's the same period as the 3.5 year reign of the beast.

No, the 1260 days is before the world is at the very worst of the great tribulation, and having gathered it armies at Armageddon, and God pouring out the 7th vial of his wrath in Revelation 16.

The peoples of the world would hardly be exchanging presents with each other at that time in Revelation 16:16-21 because the beast had just killed the two witnesses. Most proof that the 7th angel sounds right after day 1263.5 on the 2520 day timeline.

The 1260 days is on my chart. It is the first half of the 7 years.