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Featured Apocalypse of the final days - the wood in the forest

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Fullness of the Gentiles, Jul 2, 2020.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I will finish the simple outline of the timeframes where they fall.


    In the first half of the 7 years

    1260 days Revelation 11:3, Revelation 12:6

    In the second half of the 7 years

    3 1/2 days Revelation 11:11
    42 months Revelation 11:2, Revelation 13:5
    time, times, half time Daniel 11:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14
     
  2. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    The funny thing about it, I myself tend to agree with this timeline as well, or at least I think I do, yet I'm still not placing the 7th trumpet where you are placing it. I realize you make no mention of the 7th trumpet here, but even so, why is it that I can agree with your timeline here and still not be placing the 7th trumpet where you place it?
     
  3. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    Nope. They're in your timeline, but they're not in the Revelation.
     
  4. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    There's no first half in the Revelation. The 1,335 days etc has everything to do with intercalary months in the Biblical calendar and the first day of the year (the Biblical first day) and unless you are dealing with the original Biblical calendar and lunar years, your calculations will remain way out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    David, I was trying to get Fullness of the Gentiles, to think about the timeframes, where they would go. To build a framework of thinking for making a timeline chart.

    But he doesn't even recognize the 7 years. So I can't connect with him. We are too far apart on too many basic issues.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No one knows when the 70th week begins on the Jewish calendar, to be factoring in intercalary months.

    I recently asked about Adar II over at messiahtruth countermissionary sites. I got an excellent explanation by Uri Yoself, who I consider an expert on their religion of Judaism.
    History of Adar II

    Don't try to post there to prove Jesus is the messiah, they have a zero tolerance level. But it is a great place to ask what they believe.
     
  7. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    Rev 11 is the final 3.5 years culminating in the 7th trumpet. But hey, you have your calculations, but I don't have to believe you or agree with you. The Bible I read does not talk about the first 3.5 years of the final 7 years of the Age. The Bible you read does, according to your calculations, based on a belief in a 2,000 gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th week. Yet it's the same Bible.
     
  8. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    No it isn't a great place to start. The Rabbis have just as much disagreement on just about everything as you and I do. I'll rather ask Christian who I can see has thoroughly researched the subject of Daniel's 490 years or 70 weeks. You believe the Rabbis if you like. My only Rabbis are Jesus and His apostles.
     
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The person who replied to me is not a Rabbi. That site has one forum for "Ask the Rabbi" type questions. I was not asking in that forum, but the General Judaism forum. You wouldn't go there to find out what Christians believe. But what Jews (Judaism) believe.

    But it is not a place to go for someone like yourself - I agree.
     
  10. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Why would he, when both of those time periods do not end at the Return.

    The 1335 days starts at the 7 year mid point and ends 75 days after the Return, on the day the Temple will be re-dedicated.

    The 2300 evenings and mornings, is 1150 days, which is the exact time from when A4E killed a pig on the Altar, in 167 BC and when Judas Maccabees re-dedicated the old Temple, in 164 BC. Past history.
    These are just two of your 'chart' errors. That is why I and many others reject it in its entirety, although it does have some things right.
     
  11. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    :oldthumbsup:
    By the way, I never rejected the notion of a 2,000 year gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th week only because and when I discovered "The Atonement clock" book. I had rejected the notion long before I discovered that book - because next to John 3:16, Daniel 9:26 (yes, verse 26) is one of the most important verses in the entire Bible - because it gives the timing of the Messiah being "cut off, but not for Himself" - and unfortunately for those who believe in a 2,000 gap, the verse contains the word "after" - which is a translation of the Hebrew word "achar" and means "after".
     
  12. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    What you fail to see, is the faithful Christian peoples, will be kept safe during the last 1260 days before Jesus Returns. Revelation 12:14
    Isaiah 24:16 refers to them.
     
  13. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    It is right to believe in a 2000 year gap, as that is what HAS happened!
     
  14. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    What's great about these forums is the fact that I can post something up here, and then others can say that it's nonsense, and the reader whose made up his mind about some other "timing" already, might think we are both talking nonsense.

    PS: I don't believe you are correct, either about what you say, or about the verses you believe support what you say, actually supporting your position. It's putting scriptures together that do not belong together.
     
  15. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    Between the fulfillment of Daniel's 70th week and today has been almost 2,000 years, I agree.
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    "After" is not a problem. The messiah arrived in Jerusalem on Palm Sunday hailed as the messiah and cutoff 4 days later.

    upload_2020-7-2_16-53-19.jpeg


    upload_2020-7-2_16-55-28.jpeg
     
  17. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    Again, here's the picture given to us by Jesus in His Revelation:

    "..and there was given to it to make war with the saints, and to overcome them, and there was given to it authority over every tribe, and tongue, and nation." Rev 13:7.

    Christ's Revelation was meant for all saints,
    but especially for those who will be living during the final 3 1/2 years of the Age.


    The first thing we need to bear in mind is that when God's people suffered oppression and tribulation in Egypt, they remained in Egypt even while the plagues were coming upon Egypt - some of which were brought about through God's two witnesses in Egypt (Moses and Aaron):

    GOD'S TWO WITNESSES IN EGYPT: TURNING THE WATERS TO BLOOD.

    Exo 7:19-20 "And the LORD spoke to Moses, Say to Aaron, Take your rod, and stretch out your hand upon the waters of Egypt, upon their streams, upon their canals, and upon their pools, and upon every reservoir of their waters,

    that they may become blood.

    And blood shall be throughout all the land of Egypt, both in wooden and in stone vessels."

    "And Moses and Aaron did so, as the LORD commanded. And he lifted up the rod and struck the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh and in the sight of his servants.

    And all the waters in the river were turned to blood."

    THE TWO WITNESSES OF THE REVELATION: TURNING THE WATERS TO BLOOD.

    Rev 11:6 “These have authority to shut up the heaven, that it may not rain in the days of their prophecy.

    And they have authority over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.”

    Rev 16:4 "And the third angel poured out his vial on the rivers and fountains of waters, and they became blood."

    The second thing we need to bear in mind is that there is a difference between the tribulation suffered by God's people at the hand of Pharaoh, and the plagues that were coming upon Egypt.

    Likewise, the New Testament makes a clear distinction between tribulation on one hand, and "the seven last plagues" (also called the vials of wrath) of the Revelation, on the other hand:

    thlipsis-skandalizo.png

    Great Trib Persecution-Tribulation.png

    Great Trib Pharaoh-Beast.png


    The third thing we should bear in mind is that the beast has already made its appearance by the time the first plague or "vial of wrath" is poured out:
    --------------------------------------------------------
    "And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image." Rev 16:2
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    * The 5th trumpet talks about the bottomless pit being opened, and we know that the beast rises from the bottomless pit (Rev 17:8) and receives its power, throne and great authority from the dragon (Rev 13:2).

    * The 6th trumpet talks about a massive army being released to kill 1/3 of the world's population.
    * The 6th vial talks about the beast gathering his armies for the battle of Armageddon.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    "And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them." Rev 9:16 (6th trumpet).

    "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." Rev 16:16 (6th vial).
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    * The 7th trumpet talks about the result of the victory of Christ and His armies over the beast and his armies.
    * The 7th vial talks about the result of the victory of Christ and His armies over the beast and his armies.

    Summarizing the wood in the forest

    * 5th seal: The souls of the martyrs cry out from the altar and they are told to wait a little while till the full number of their brothers who are to be killed as they were, is complete.

    * 5th trumpet: The bottomless pit (from which the bast ascends) is opened.

    * 5th vial is poured out "upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, and blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds."

    * 6th seal: there was a great earthquake. And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs when she is shaken by a mighty wind.

    We are told that all men are trying to hide from the wrath of the Lamb at this time. This suggests that The Lord Jesus Christ has now appeared in the clouds:

    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and those who pierced Him will see Him, and all the kindreds of the earth will wail because of Him. Even so, Amen." (Rev 1:7)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    It also re-affirms what Jesus said during His Olivet Discourse:
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Mat 24:29-31 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.

    And then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory."
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    The above most certainly would cause all men to try to hide from the wrath of the Lamb.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." (Mat 24:31).
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    So that's the 6th seal - it's telling us about what follows the final tribulation period, which is a tribulation to be faced by the saints at the hand of the beast.

    In the midst of the Revelation concerning the 6th vial, we read Jesus interjecting:

    "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame." (Revelation 16:15).

    Immediately afterward (still in the 6th vial) we are told about the beast gathering his armies together to the place called in Hebrew "Armageddon":

    * The 6th trumpet talks about a massive army being released to kill 1/3 of the world's population.
    * The 6th vial talks about the beast gathering his armies for the battle of Armageddon, with Jesus interjecting to say He is coming as a thief.
    * The 6th seal talks about people trying to hide from the wrath of the Lamb.

    * The 7th trumpet talks about the result of the victory of Christ and His armies over the beast and his armies.
    * The 7th vial talks about the result of the victory of Christ and His armies over the beast and his armies.

    * The 7th seal seems to be telling us that the events of the trumpets will only take place after the 7th seal is opened - and yet the 7th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th bowl all mention "noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake".

    It's not that difficult to understand, when we understand that tribulation refers to the experience of saints at the hand of "beasts", and seven last plagues or bowls of wrath refers to what comes upon the kingdom of the beast, just like the plagues came upon the kingdom of Pharaoh.
     
  18. Timtofly

    Timtofly Active Member

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    And again I ask, is this a harvest?

    No one on earth is going out of earth, as to a promised land. All humanity are going to die, and end up in the lake of fire.

    The Second Coming is after the tribulation of those days. The rapture happens at the 6th seal. This is the thief in the night removal. Once it happens, there will be no more surprises.
     
  19. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Between the Death and resurrection of Christ, at the end of the 69th 'week', and today, there has been nearly 2000 years.
    You cannot say Daniel 9:26 means anything other than the Crucifixion happened just at the end point of the 62 + 7 = 69th 'week'.
    It is obvious to all that what will happen when the 70th 'week' is over, remains to be fulfilled. Daniel 9:24
     
  20. Timtofly

    Timtofly Active Member

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    I doubt it matters much. No one is looking at it as Jacob's trouble. It has all been turned into the church's trouble and now the church hogs the whole trib. They even take over for all the lost. It is just the church boldly going where they should not go. It is not even about Christ. It is the church against 2 of Satan's puppets.
     
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