Anyone watch "the Jesus strand"

[Maxyss]

STERA, at the Shroud of Turin Website, whom I consider to be as close to experts as anyone is on this subject, had this to say:
"On Easter Sunday the History Channel aired a new program titled, “The Jesus Strand: A Search for DNA.” The program’s promotional materials implied that new testing was done on the Shroud of Turin to extract possible DNA from the cloth. Yet the program itself was very obscure about the source of their data or where the samples came from. That prompted me to write directly to the Turin authorities to ask if any such new testing had been permitted. Their reply was immediate and explicit: “No permission for a direct test has been given to anybody by the Vatican and there is no knowledge of any blood test made on "official" samples.”
So what samples were used in the making of the program? After watching it a second time and paying close attention, I realized that the samples used were from the dusts aspirated (vacuumed) from between the Shroud and the Holland Cloth by Prof. Giovanni Riggi in 1978. The problem with those dust samples is that no provenance can be determined for whatever particles might be found in them. There is no way to be certain what was found came from the Shroud or the Holland cloth or somewhere else. In fact, the Turin authorities declared years ago that they would not recognize or accept any scientific conclusions based solely on those samples for that very same reason. Consequently, any claims made in the program are not truly supported by any credible science. We have no idea if the DNA they tested was from actual Shroud blood or from any of the thousands of people who have handled it over the centuries (including me).
The only bright spot in the program was the interview with Dr. Mark Guscin regarding the Sudarium of Oviedo. Mark is an expert on that topic and has written extensively on it over the years. You can find his work via the Website Search Engine on www.shroud.com. Sadly, most of the program featured rather forced overacting by the two hosts and their so-called conclusions were obviously over-dramatized for entertainment purposes. In the end, those conclusions are not supported by any credible science. This is why I have written multiple editorials warning people not to use TV “documentaries” as a basis for their study of the Shroud. This program is a perfect example of why I made that statement. Once again, another disappointing effort from the History Channel (where apparently, history… is history)!"
See their link here: STERA, Inc.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

STERA, at the Shroud of Turin Website, whom I consider to be as close to experts as anyone is on this subject, had this to say:

Thanks for that! Wonder how the got Druze? Maybe it was DNA from Barrie Schwortz...he is Jewish

 

[Druzemar]

Sorry for interfering in the discussion, but as a pure Druze person I thought it might be usefull to clear some points, and I am not in any way trying to claim or assume anything here because I do not know. Druze full name is The unitarians Druze, our father/main prophet is Jethro of Midian and I believe you all know the relation between Jethro and Moses so we are the nation of Midian. The name Druze is recent name from recent history only which is faking the real identity of the Unitarians Druze fearing of Islam. Druze never left the middleeast and now they live in Israel, Lebanon,Syria,and Jordan and they are all related, any link/s between Druze and Islam are fake and a cover up, basically a surviving game, and in order to check this you can read about the Druze in Israel and how the Jewish state treating them and How the druze are soldiers of the Iraeli army. Druze religion is closed for more than 1000 years ago, and Druze are not allowed to marry outside the group (iam 43 still not married and only after i marry Druze woman i will have kids) our religious leaders tell us we need to protect the pure blood. If a Druze marry from outside the sect he or she and their kids are not considered Druze anymore, you can imagine how hard is this for us specially in this modern world And in order to protect our selves in that part of the world it is not allowed for any druze man to learn the teachings of Druze before the age of 40 years old, which i believe in that age a person is strong enough to keep a secret and shut up, and Druze religion did not ask us to becone religious, it is a long process to be accepted in the religious leaders elite group and if you have chosen to follow this and been accepted you need to give up everything in life even TV our religious leaders are not suppose to watch tv they only study the druze books and meditate,,, Druze do not believe in Mohammed the Islam prophet and do not pray or fast or visit Mecca or any thing of that but we have to keep low profile always so no one can notice, i am druze man and i do not belong to the religiou elite so i can enjoy life no pray nothing but if i want my kids to continue Druze i must marry Druze woman or i am out of the sect...

 

[Sword of the Lord]

The Shroud of Turin, Fatima, the Holy Fire in Jerusalem, incorrupt bodies of saints, RC Eucharist becoming heart tissue and actual, testable blood...all fascinating stuff but completely irrelevant to me. People chase after miracles for proof of God. I look at my hands, state into my deep green eyes, look at my children, look at the trees and flowers outside, the clouds, animals, watch the wind rustle leaves, and that is the greatest and most overlooked miracle and proof of God that there is.

 

[ArmyMatt]

The Shroud of Turin, Fatima, the Holy Fire in Jerusalem, incorrupt bodies of saints, RC Eucharist becoming heart tissue and actual, testable blood...all fascinating stuff but completely irrelevant to me. People chase after miracles for proof of God. I look at my hands, state into my deep green eyes, look at my children, look at the trees and flowers outside, the clouds, animals, watch the wind rustle leaves, and that is the greatest and most overlooked miracle and proof of God that there is.

well, we don't really care about Fatima or what Rome says, since we are not Roman Catholic. however, I would say you are right in that we do not base our faith in these miracles, nor do we seek after signs. the signs are just some of the many ways God speaks to us, to include the more natural ways you pointed out. when they come, glory to God. if not, glory to God.

 

[Light of the East]

well, we don't really care about Fatima or what Rome says, since we are not Roman Catholic. however, I would say you are right in that we do not base our faith in these miracles, nor do we seek after signs. the signs are just some of the many ways God speaks to us, to include the more natural ways you pointed out. when they come, glory to God. if not, glory to God.

But the problem Matt, with some of the "visions" and "miracles" of the Roman Church is that the message that often accompanies it is this:

"Believe what I am saying or you will get the butt-whuppin' of a lifetime and then go straight to hell forever."

For anyone concerned about the eternal welfare of his soul, this is no small message. However, as one Orthodox site I just read has posted, the messages of the apparition at Fatima promote doctrinal positions which are greatly at odds with Orthodox theology and proper anthropology.

Shortly stated - I don't know what to make of Fatima.

 

[Light of the East]

This is from an Orthodox site and pretty bluntly worded: (My comments in red)


Month after month, the imposter of Fatima directed the children to establish devotion to herself. On July 13, 1917, she showed the children a vision of hell. Again, she promised salvation to those who would be devoted to her. "You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved".

The Doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is for good anthropological and soteriological reasons, rejected by Orthodoxy. This is a strike against Fatima.

God has already saved us from hell by the blood of the Lamb and our testimony to Jesus. God already has provided a way to save them from hell. God established, not devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, but a Church that will share the good news of God's salvation revealed in Christ. This is confirmed by the power of the Holy Spirit working through His Word and Sacraments. "I solemnly assure you, the man who hears my word and has faith in Him who sent me possesses eternal life. He does not come under condemnation, but has passed from death to life". (John 5:24 NAB)

I was thinking about this the other night. For 19 centuries, the Church had no additions added to the Sacramental nature of our salvation, i.e., that one is baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3) and one receives the Eucharist for eternal life. (John 6) Now all of a sudden we have all these "extras" which promise that if you do them, you are guaranteed to get heaven (Green Scapulars, Brown Scapulars, so many Rosaries, devotion to the Immaculate Heart, etc.) I find it all highly problematic and making merchandise of God's free grace.

It is illogical to even consider the prospect that Mary, seeing her Son in all His glory, seated at the right hand of the Father interceding for all believers would even contemplate making the statement that it is devotion to her that is God's plan to save the world. It makes no sense for the believer to equate salvation with the number of rosaries that are said when we have Christ living to make intercession for us.

The great deceiver of Fatima promises salvation to those who embrace devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. This promises more than the Church promises to those who attend Mass and receive the Sacraments!!!!!! God's one promise of salvation has already been made and fulfilled on the cross. We can be very certain that God did not send Mary to earth to change God's eternal plan of salvation. It is just this kind of deceit that leads to other false statements about Mary; Mediatrix of all graces etc. The devil's deceit is felt far and wide within the Church as is evidenced in the number of well meaning but deceived souls proclaiming Mary is Mediatrix of all graces. How would have such a statement sounded to the Apostles?

 

[ArmyMatt]

But the problem Matt, with some of the "visions" and "miracles" of the Roman Church is that the message that often accompanies it is this:

"Believe what I am saying or you will get the butt-whuppin' of a lifetime and then go straight to hell forever."

For anyone concerned about the eternal welfare of his soul, this is no small message. However, as one Orthodox site I just read has posted, the messages of the apparition at Fatima promote doctrinal positions which are greatly at odds with Orthodox theology and proper anthropology.

Shortly stated - I don't know what to make of Fatima.

oh sure, that is why we look to true faith and experience in Christ first. which I can see would be difficult coming from someone outside of our tradition

 

[Gesile]

I agree with that, but they wouldn't have been "Druze" before 1017, true? So what would they have been called, I wonder?
I do need to study the terminology of DNA studies a bit further to become more versed.
Thanks for the note!

I am druze ,before we became druze we were muslim

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I am druze ,before we became druze we were muslim

And before that?

 

[Teresa Nacli]

STERA, at the Shroud of Turin Website, whom I consider to be as close to experts as anyone is on this subject, had this to say:
"On Easter Sunday the History Channel aired a new program titled, “The Jesus Strand: A Search for DNA.” The program’s promotional materials implied that new testing was done on the Shroud of Turin to extract possible DNA from the cloth. Yet the program itself was very obscure about the source of their data or where the samples came from. That prompted me to write directly to the Turin authorities to ask if any such new testing had been permitted. Their reply was immediate and explicit: “No permission for a direct test has been given to anybody by the Vatican and there is no knowledge of any blood test made on "official" samples.”
So what samples were used in the making of the program? After watching it a second time and paying close attention, I realized that the samples used were from the dusts aspirated (vacuumed) from between the Shroud and the Holland Cloth by Prof. Giovanni Riggi in 1978. The problem with those dust samples is that no provenance can be determined for whatever particles might be found in them. There is no way to be certain what was found came from the Shroud or the Holland cloth or somewhere else. In fact, the Turin authorities declared years ago that they would not recognize or accept any scientific conclusions based solely on those samples for that very same reason. Consequently, any claims made in the program are not truly supported by any credible science. We have no idea if the DNA they tested was from actual Shroud blood or from any of the thousands of people who have handled it over the centuries (including me).
The only bright spot in the program was the interview with Dr. Mark Guscin regarding the Sudarium of Oviedo. Mark is an expert on that topic and has written extensively on it over the years. You can find his work via the Website Search Engine on www.shroud.com. Sadly, most of the program featured rather forced overacting by the two hosts and their so-called conclusions were obviously over-dramatized for entertainment purposes. In the end, those conclusions are not supported by any credible science. This is why I have written multiple editorials warning people not to use TV “documentaries” as a basis for their study of the Shroud. This program is a perfect example of why I made that statement. Once again, another disappointing effort from the History Channel (where apparently, history… is history)!"
See their link here: STERA, Inc.

STERA, at the Shroud of Turin Website, whom I consider to be as close to experts as anyone is on this subject, had this to say:
"On Easter Sunday the History Channel aired a new program titled, “The Jesus Strand: A Search for DNA.” The program’s promotional materials implied that new testing was done on the Shroud of Turin to extract possible DNA from the cloth. Yet the program itself was very obscure about the source of their data or where the samples came from. That prompted me to write directly to the Turin authorities to ask if any such new testing had been permitted. Their reply was immediate and explicit: “No permission for a direct test has been given to anybody by the Vatican and there is no knowledge of any blood test made on "official" samples.”
So what samples were used in the making of the program? After watching it a second time and paying close attention, I realized that the samples used were from the dusts aspirated (vacuumed) from between the Shroud and the Holland Cloth by Prof. Giovanni Riggi in 1978. The problem with those dust samples is that no provenance can be determined for whatever particles might be found in them. There is no way to be certain what was found came from the Shroud or the Holland cloth or somewhere else. In fact, the Turin authorities declared years ago that they would not recognize or accept any scientific conclusions based solely on those samples for that very same reason. Consequently, any claims made in the program are not truly supported by any credible science. We have no idea if the DNA they tested was from actual Shroud blood or from any of the thousands of people who have handled it over the centuries (including me).
The only bright spot in the program was the interview with Dr. Mark Guscin regarding the Sudarium of Oviedo. Mark is an expert on that topic and has written extensively on it over the years. You can find his work via the Website Search Engine on www.shroud.com. Sadly, most of the program featured rather forced overacting by the two hosts and their so-called conclusions were obviously over-dramatized for entertainment purposes. In the end, those conclusions are not supported by any credible science. This is why I have written multiple editorials warning people not to use TV “documentaries” as a basis for their study of the Shroud. This program is a perfect example of why I made that statement. Once again, another disappointing effort from the History Channel (where apparently, history… is history)!"
See their link here: STERA, Inc.

I am Christian with a grand mother Druze
and a grandmother Jew !!!
I AM from Jesus family , and this secret the Druze know in Magdal Shams!
My family is the first Christian family that centuries ago started living in Majdal Shams. The father of my grandmother, Ibrahim Afandi Abu Jamra was the last Christian Mukhtar in Majdal Shams. and he married a Druze from Enknya Adla Dabous .
My heritage is from the founding families of Majdal Shams, and the amount of these Arab and Christian lands that are held by my family are substantial. These lands were
given to my family for safekeeping by the Orthodox Church and therefore are considered Holy-lands.
My family hold legal papers that prove that this is my family land, and that we are the rightful owners of these lands.

In 1926, due to the political instability inflicted by the Great Syrian Revolt, my great grandfather, Ibrahim Abu Jamra immigrated with his family to Brazil.
I am back and have a "peace project for Golan " in honor of Jesus !
"Love each other "

Museumofthefuturefoundation.org
Museudofuturo.com.br

May Peace Prevail on Earth
Golan Heights Peace Project

Teresinha de Jesus Nacli

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I am Christian with a grand mother Druze
and a grandmother Jew !!!
I AM from Jesus family , and this secret the Druze know in Magdal Shams!
My family is the first Christian family that centuries ago started living in Majdal Shams. The father of my grandmother, Ibrahim Afandi Abu Jamra was the last Christian Mukhtar in Majdal Shams. and he married a Druze from Enknya Adla Dabous .
My heritage is from the founding families of Majdal Shams, and the amount of these Arab and Christian lands that are held by my family are substantial. These lands were
given to my family for safekeeping by the Orthodox Church and therefore are considered Holy-lands.
My family hold legal papers that prove that this is my family land, and that we are the rightful owners of these lands.

In 1926, due to the political instability inflicted by the Great Syrian Revolt, my great grandfather, Ibrahim Abu Jamra immigrated with his family to Brazil.
I am back and have a "peace project for Golan " in honor of Jesus !
"Love each other "

Museumofthefuturefoundation.org
Museudofuturo.com.br

May Peace Prevail on Earth
Golan Heights Peace Project

Teresinha de Jesus Nacli

Shalom! Fascinating story Teresa! BTW, you look very much just like my mother Are you Sephardic then or Mizrahi? FYI to others here, Majdal Shams is a small town on the slope of Mt Hermon.

 

[Puredruze]

I am druze ,before we became druze we were muslim

Excuse you. If you go get educated about the true dude religion we were never Muslims. Get you facts straight. We lived in secrecy for thousands of years because of the turmoil of the between the Muslims and the Jews. WE ARE NOT AND NEVER WERE MUSLIMS.

 

[Chadi B. Ghaith]

Hello,
I am Druze myself (from both parents). I am the author of About Druzenet and Mimadamos (The Eden of Choice).
What I can tell you is that the Druze are anything but Islam cause in their doctrines they reject all 5 pillars of Islam, not to mention more. The Druze reject polygamy, pilgrimage to Mecca, fasting during Ramadan, prayer in mosques or any ritualistic behavior (etc), and I don't mean this in any disrespect to our Muslim brothers. Its just a fact. Our texts are referred to as 'The Hikma' and they are forbidden even from the Druze themselves if they're not ready to receive the knowledge. El-Hikma means 'wisdom' and the Texts include material from Ancient Hermeticism, Ancient Greek Philosophy, Ancient Judaism and Christianity and Sufi Islam.
The Druze were historically forced to assume homogeneity in the Middle East (amidst a sea of Islam) in fear of persecution and because they have no other choice, especially that they are not open to conversion (no one who is not born Druze can ever become Druze) which make them a minority community with its population on the decline.
Unlike the Sunni(s) who have Saudi Arabia backing them, the Shiites who have Iran backing them, The Catholics who have the Vatican backing them, the Orthodox who have Russia and Greece behind them and the Jews who have the Jewish Diaspora (very well established in the United States and all countries around the world), the Druze have no support from the outside.
Thus they had no choice but to assimilate to the point of almost dissolving. In Syria they act like they're Islam. In Israel, they almost cannot be differentiated from the Jews and they serve in the Jewish army and state. In Lebanon they have a bit more freedom and they coexist best with Christians.
The Druze in their sacred forbidden texts converge with ancient Gnostic Christianity which existed openly till 300AD (until the council of Nicea in Constantinople lead by Constantine and Pope Innocent, when traces of Gnosticism were removed from the bible and the Gnostics were sentenced to burning-to-death on the sticks). One of the main doctrines which the Druze believe was removed from the bible is the Doctrine of Reincarnation and which is one of the key Druze doctrines. The other key doctrine is Ancientness of the World (they adopt the Atlantean and Lemurian accounts and believe humanity existed in its civilised advanced state since many many millions of years prior to this Adamic cycle and which ultimately renders the Story of Genesis as purely symbolic).
Our 5-Colour star symbol refers to the 5 sacred men in all their incarnations throughout history since primeval Atlantean, Egyptian and ancient Greek times.
In the Christian times, the 5 sacred men revered by the Druze and symbolised by their star are identified as: Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, Mathew, Marcus, Lucus. We reject the fingerprints of Peter and Paul on Christianity (i.e. the institutionalisation of Christianity and its integration with the secular powers) and we believe that Christianity today do not reflect the Ancient Gnostic Christianity which Jesus Christ taught; however, we do respect all religions regardless.
In conclusion, the Druze did exist in the same beliefs they exist in now since time-eternal and preserved their ancient DNA through strict marital laws, yet their naming changed throughout history. They were called Gnostics before they came to be known as 'Druze'.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Hello,
I am Druze myself (from both parents). I am the author of Mimadamos (The Eden of Choice).
What I can tell you is that the Druze are anything but Islam. The Druze in their sacred forbidden texts converge with ancient Gnostic Christianity which existed openly till 300AD (until the council of Nicea in Constantinople lead by Constantine and Pope Innocent where traces of Gnosticism were removed from the bible and the Gnostic were sentenced to burn-to-death on the sticks).
Our 5-Colour star symbol refers to the 5 sacred men in all their incarnations throughout history since primeval Atlantean, Egyptian and ancient Greek times.
In the Christian times, the 5 sacred men revered by the Druze and symbolised by their star are identified as: Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, Mathew, Marcus, Lucus. We reject the fingerprints of Peter and Paul on Christianity and we believe that Christianity today do not reflect the Christianity which Jesus Christ came for; however, we do respect all religions regardless.
In other words, the Druze did exist in the same beliefs they exist in now since time-eternal but their naming was different. They were called Gnostics before.

actually, the Pope at the time of Nicaea was St Sylvester, not Innocent. the first Pope Innocent was the 400s. and the Pope did not attend the Council, but sent delegates and approved it when it came back to him.

do you have any evidence that Sts Peter and Paul changed Christianity?

 

[Chadi B. Ghaith]

Maybe i got bit mixed up with regards to the pope's name back then cz i answered from memory. As for the evidence regarding Peter and Paul, I speak from a purely Druze perspective. It is believed by the Druze that Jesus referred to Peter as The Rock in reference to his stubbornness and inflexibility with regards to Jesus teachings. Also, it is believed by the Druze that Paul and Peter were originally responsible for institutionalising Christianity and taking it on a route that is less universal and not reflective of what Jesus had in mind.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Maybe i got bit mixed up with regards to the pope's name back then cz i answered from memory. As for the evidence regarding Peter and Paul, I speak from a purely Druze perspective. It is believed by the Druze that Jesus referred to Peter as The Rock in reference to his stubbornness and inflexibility with regards to Jesus teachings. Also, it is believed by the Druze that Paul and Peter were originally responsible for institutionalising Christianity and taking it on a route that is less universal and not reflective of what Jesus had in mind.

well, I got that. but what evidence do you have to back that up?

 

[~Anastasia~]

Hello and welcome to CF and to TAW.

Thank you for explaining a bit of your perspective to us. It's something I'd heard of before, but it seems very unique that your beliefs are something you must necessarily be born into. It seems to me that on the flip side, there would also be tremendous pressure not to convert to any other belief, since your group would not accept converts and so relies on biologically reproducing. Essentially - keep everyone else out yet keep yourselves in?

Forgive me, I do not mean to press on this. It's just that the theological and personal implications are ... startling.

Again, welcome to CF.

Hello,
I am Druze myself (from both parents). I am the author of About Druzenet and Mimadamos (The Eden of Choice).
What I can tell you is that the Druze are anything but Islam cause in their doctrines they reject all 5 pillars of Islam, not to mention more. The Druze reject polygamy, pilgrimage to Mecca, fasting during Ramadan, prayer in mosques or any ritualistic behavior (etc), and I don't mean this in any disrespect to our Muslim brothers. Its just a fact. Our texts are referred to as 'The Hikma' and they are forbidden even from the Druze themselves if they're not ready to receive the knowledge. El-Hikma means 'wisdom' and the Texts include material from Ancient Hermeticism, Ancient Greek Philosophy, Ancient Judaism and Christianity and Sufi Islam.
The Druze were historically forced to assume homogeneity in the Middle East (amidst a sea of Islam) in fear of persecution and because they have no other choice, especially that they are not open to conversion (no one who is not born Druze can ever become Druze) which make them a minority community with its population on the decline.
Unlike the Sunni(s) who have Saudi Arabia backing them, the Shiites who have Iran backing them, The Catholics who have the Vatican backing them, the Orthodox who have Russia and Greece behind them and the Jews who have the Jewish Diaspora (very well established in the United States and all countries around the world), the Druze have no support from the outside.
Thus they had no choice but to assimilate to the point of almost dissolving. In Syria they act like they're Islam. In Israel, they almost cannot be differentiated from the Jews and they serve in the Jewish army and state. In Lebanon they have a bit more freedom and they coexist best with Christians.
The Druze in their sacred forbidden texts converge with ancient Gnostic Christianity which existed openly till 300AD (until the council of Nicea in Constantinople lead by Constantine and Pope Innocent, when traces of Gnosticism were removed from the bible and the Gnostics were sentenced to burning-to-death on the sticks). One of the main doctrines which the Druze believe was removed from the bible is the Doctrine of Reincarnation and which is one of the key Druze doctrines. The other key doctrine is Ancientness of the World (they adopt the Atlantean and Lemurian accounts and believe humanity existed in its civilised advanced state since many many millions of years prior to this Adamic cycle and which ultimately renders the Story of Genesis as purely symbolic).
Our 5-Colour star symbol refers to the 5 sacred men in all their incarnations throughout history since primeval Atlantean, Egyptian and ancient Greek times.
In the Christian times, the 5 sacred men revered by the Druze and symbolised by their star are identified as: Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, Mathew, Marcus, Lucus. We reject the fingerprints of Peter and Paul on Christianity (i.e. the institutionalisation of Christianity and its integration with the secular powers) and we believe that Christianity today do not reflect the Ancient Gnostic Christianity which Jesus Christ taught; however, we do respect all religions regardless.
In conclusion, the Druze did exist in the same beliefs they exist in now since time-eternal and preserved their ancient DNA through strict marital laws, yet their naming changed throughout history. They were called Gnostics before they came to be known as 'Druze'.

 

[Chadi B. Ghaith]

well, I got that. but what evidence do you have to back that up?

The evidence is subtle; cause to understand what i mean, you'd have to compare Paul and Peter with John, Mathew, Marcus and Lucas....
but still something can be deduced from the New Testament which shows that those two men's interests were not similar or close to the other four men. Those two quotes are from an article i found online that hints at the same point we're discussing.

"...The New Testament often portrays Peter as rash and headstrong. One minute, he is a paragon of faith; the next, he has completely misunderstood what Jesus wants. He frequently does not seem to get what is going on, and he even denies Jesus when Jesus is about to be executed..."

This kinda explains why Jesus compared him to 'a rock' contrary to the common understanding that the comparison refers to Peter's works as being the solid ground that Christianity was built on.

"...Scripture introduces Paul as a violent persecutor of the first Christians. In fact, he oversees the execution of the man whom the Acts of the Apostles depicts as the first martyr, St. Stephen (Acts 7:58-8:1). He considers himself a late addition to the Jesus movement, referring to himself as “one untimely born” (1 Cor 15:8)..."

In other words, both displayed clear interest in a political aspect of Christianity as a movement more so than as a universal message of peace and love.

 

[Chadi B. Ghaith]

Hello and welcome to CF and to TAW.

Thank you for explaining a bit of your perspective to us. It's something I'd heard of before, but it seems very unique that your beliefs are something you must necessarily be born into. It seems to me that on the flip side, there would also be tremendous pressure not to convert to any other belief, since your group would not accept converts and so relies on biologically reproducing. Essentially - keep everyone else out yet keep yourselves in?

Forgive me, I do not mean to press on this. It's just that the theological and personal implications are ... startling.

Again, welcome to CF.

Thank you. Am honoured to be joining you. Yes, there is a tremendous pressure on the Druze not to marry outside the faith; but a Druze after the age of 15 is considered free to do what he/she wants under his own responsibility. If he does marry outside the faith (and many do), he is still Druze in his official ID card but is not allowed any more any exposure to the texts or a chance to be initiated into the spiritual side of the faith.