Anyone have trouble in the church ?

[sfg]

I have been to a number of Christian churches and can't say I was treated very well by any of them.

Between Pastors who embrace replacement theology and others who resent the jews and believe their calling and blesssings have been taken away or replaced, I am starting to lose faith in the church.

It seems the last thing anyone one of them wanted to do was have a relationship with me.

Is it me or is this the situation in the church as whole

sfg

 

[SonWorshipper]

May I ask, are you Jewish by birth? And maybe raised in a church or are you seeking now?

 

[SonWorshipper]

I'm sorry sfg, I think I read somewhere that you are a Messianic Jew? Forgive me , but I don't understand about what you mean about the church? You are not in a Messianic congregation?

 

[simchat_torah]

In sfg's profile it says he goes to St. Luke's Episcipol ch-rch.

Anyway, sfg, as you continue to grow in the Torah, and in your Jewish identity, you will continue to feel more and more uncomfortable in a ch-rch setting... frankly there are many unavoidable issues that christianity brings up in conflict with a passion for Torah, the Jewish people, and in your search to remain pure from paganism.

shalom,
Yafet.

 

[SonWorshipper]

Simchat , why do you keep eliminating the "U" in church?

 

[NOTso angry-amy]

i got the same feeling from churches. it is frustrating for me too.

what is more frustrating is that the so-called messianic fellowships that i have been exposed to are not really messianic. i have yet to meet anyone who is truely messianic jew at these things.... just a lot of messianic gentiles and christians who think christianity as the common world sees it is too pagan for them.

i am losing faith in the fact that i am not alone.

 

[NOTso angry-amy]

i know that it is hard to find one where the majority of the people are messianic jews.....

but i dont want to be the only one in a congregation. please!

not even the teacher is messianic jew. this is hard because he is teaching about hebrew and stuff like that, but he still teaches through his OWN CHRISTIAN CULTURAL LENSES.

i dont have the cultural lenses of a christian. therefore i cant see things the same way.

 

[Omaha-gal]

Tell me,
i am interested in folk's replies on this matter
(it seems to be open here for discussion)

about where to find a place of true worship of the Lord,
with fellow believers,

a. who are like minded,
in desiring the Lord,

b. learning His covennant
and living in His grace,

c. with a true God-appointed servant-leader teaching
the truth of God's word?


reason why i ask is this:

We left the habit of traditional sunday church service going
because of the lack of real teaching of the Word,
not much heard about God's covenant and what the Bible teaches about who we are in the Lord as He sees us.

and we left the only Messianic congregation in town,
because of the harshness of the leader that he held against those
who would not become a member of his congregation.
and i emphasize the word 'his'...

his purpose and agenda was revealed and the Lord directed us to leave it.
months later, we learned that many had left it as well.

where does the Lord say you must become a 'paid up member'
to go to a place of worship?

'paid up' meaning
1. that you do all the do's of that particular groups' rules,
especially the ones that look good in order to recruit people in...

2. pay for leadership agendas for more building funds
that puts ungodly pressures and burdens on the flock-

(oh but one is discourgaed from speaking out and should not believe anything scripturally opposite of their spoon fed prosperity teachings.


3. you don't question the leadership on their teaching
of the Scriptures,
which are religious mens traditions of what they think 'church' ought to be.

Does or does not the Holy Scriptures teach that all people who believe in the Only Begotten Son of God, and believe God sent Him,
are members of His Body ??

Are we not called to love and serve Him,
then do the same for one-another, living in humility,
not seeking notice, promoting self, nor to do works to gain points with God.

abuse of the pulpits from both places
and lack of sound teaching the truth of Scriptures is why we left.
it is for a time and a season, we know this for sure. He has not forsaken us.
we have not been out of fellowship with other believers.

maybe God has a place for us to go to regularly,
but He has not presented it to us yet.

don't get me wrong, we have not left our' First Love',
rather, He is moving strongly in our family
and we have fellowship together here at home, with the Lord...
for where two or more are gathered in His Name, there He is in the midst of us, where ever we are... and it does not matter if we are jewish or gentile,

His grace covers all believers in His Only Begotten Son.

may i encourage you to invest in God's true work through out the world,
especially in Israel,
consider what God would have you do in -prayer and action -
to support those appointed to go forth to spread the Gospel,
pray for those who are in the harvest fields of the persecuted believers,
they need much support for basic needs of the people they minister to, things we take for granted, such as a meal a day, shoes and clothes,
money, even more needed are copies of The Word of God
in native languages.


Shalom!

 

[sfg]

May I ask, are you Jewish by birth? And maybe raised in a church or are you seeking now? Sonworshipper

Didn't have time to post. I am jewish by birth, My Grandfather was the head Rabbi in Warsau.

I came to Christ with the help of my wife 13 years ago but still haven't found my place. I was confirmed by the bishop in the episcopal church and it is a great church but as usual they won't really get involved with me unless I force it.

I am contemplating now looking for a Messianic congregation but I have an allergy against the legalistic approach. Do you think I would feel at home there. I hope so, I am really stating to lose faith in the church.

It is not like I don't want to, everywhere I have been they have purposely held me down in every instance.

Oy weh's mir
Oh it really hurts me

 

[sfg]

 

 

[Talmid HaYarok]

Shalom SFG, welcome to the Messianic Forum 

I too have had the same problem. In fact in the city I just moved out of I didn't regularly attend a church in the whole year that I was there. All the ones I went to were very unhealthy, either because of replacement theology or putting nationalism and american culture before spirituality and the Bible.

While there are some Messianic congregations that are certainly highly legalistic, most are not. Yes most try to observe all the bible commandments, but being obedient before the Lord is not in itself legalism to me.

The main problem and fault I see with many Messianic congregations is either becoming too gentile and being swayed into becoming protestant churches or being too Rabbinic and being swayed to abandoning the Bible for Jewish traditions.

No church is perfect though because it is made up of human beings and our faith should be in the Lord rather than the imperfect church.

What I look for is:

Is this church truly trying to follow the Lord before all else?

and related to that,

Is this place where I can grow closer to the Lord in a healthy relationship?

 

[NOTso angry-amy]

these are questions that i try to ask too... but when you ask these questions... i find frustration in whether the answers to these questions are "No" due to them really being "no," or "no" because of my own ignorance.

 

[MissytheButterfly]

7th April 2003 at 10:02 PM sfg said this in Post #1

I have been to a number of Christian churches and can't say I was treated very well by any of them.

Between Pastors who embrace replacement theology and others who resent the jews and believe their calling and blesssings have been taken away or replaced, I am starting to lose faith in the church.

It seems the last thing anyone one of them wanted to do was have a relationship with me.

Is it me or is this the situation in the church as whole

sfg

Well I have to say it's not my experiene to have been treated badly by every Christian church that I have been too.. frankly, I have been treated well by most. My issue came in where I found these Christian churches were not in accordance with the very Bible they preach from. And on top of it all seemed to have some vendetta against Jews.. which is ridiculous to me considering the Jews are the chosen people.

Unfortunately, I would say that in most Christian churches you will find this sort of behavior.. WHY ? Because manyt of the Christian churches today have adopted certain things that are not biblical and have their own way of viewing certain things. For instance, many think Mosiac Law is null and void.. and have adopted certain pagan origin ideas into their churches. Many think certain holidays are really a replacement of the actually biblical feasts, etc.

So if you believe otherwise, you certainly aren't going to get the nicest reception. LOL!

For years I was a Protestant and though I wasn't treated poorly, I basically felt the many of the teachings were non-biblical and I didn't want to continue sitting somewhere that I wasn't fulfilled just to say to people, "Oh I attend church" and I didn't like the disrespect that was tossed toward God's chosen--the Jews. And well I went to Catholic schooling for 10 years and went to Baptist school for 2 (which I graduated from) and always felt they didn't support what I specifically believed the bible said.. so I never adopted those faiths at all.

For me, in the Messianic faith.. I feel a lot of embracement, love, and respect but most of all I feel it follows the bible in the correct context. So it fulfills me, but that's me. It has to be your choice where you want to be and maybe if Christian churches just aren't cutting it for you, you could find a Messianic congregation or choose to study on your own until you figure it all out. That's what helped me. I had to study on my OWN to figure it all out and now I am content with what I believe and where I am in God.

Missy 

 

[SonWorshipper]

8th April 2003 at 04:12 PM sfg said this in Post #11

May I ask, are you Jewish by birth? And maybe raised in a church or are you seeking now? Sonworshipper

Didn't have time to post. I am jewish by birth, My Grandfather was the head Rabbi in Warsau.

I came to Christ with the help of my wife 13 years ago but still haven't found my place. I was confirmed by the bishop in the episcopal church and it is a great church but as usual they won't really get involved with me unless I force it.

I am contemplating now looking for a Messianic congregation but I have an allergy against the legalistic approach. Do you think I would feel at home there. I hope so, I am really stating to lose faith in the church.

It is not like I don't want to, everywhere I have been they have purposely held me down in every instance.

Oy weh's mir
Oh it really hurts me

Hi sfg, Sorry for the blunt questions, it's just I was confused in what you were asking. It is wonderful that your wife has lead you to faith in Yeshua!

Now may I ask is the church you are in the one that she attended at the time, or of the same denomination?

I was confirmed by the bishop in the Episcopal Church

I am not entirely sure what that means, is this like joining the church, or a baptism? Like a sacrament?

Also I am wondering if your wife is a Gentile believer? I am familiar with many mixed marriages and the difficulties they experience when trying to figure out where to worship. My synagogue just gave a three week course on this. It can be hard.

What I would suggest is that you look into some sites about Messianic Judaism ( but beware there are all kinds ) and then share this with your wife.

Do you celebrate any of the biblical Holidays at home together? That could be a start.

As far as joining or attending a Messianic group (depending on which one of course) I think that you would be more than welcomed, I know you would be in mine. I personally know some Jewish believers that were never religious but have been called by HaShem and are just now learning of their roots but in the fulfilled context of Yeshua being at the center.

I also understand what you mean about the way you are treated in the church, kind of like they don't know what to make of you or do with you, from a Gentile prospective. When you explain your beliefs to Christians they just don't understand and really don't know what to say, but I do know of some churches that are welcoming those who wish to teach on the Biblical feasts and the Jewish roots of the church so it is improving. Now this would be in the more evangelical type churches. I don't think that those connected with the Catholic Church or Orthodox look to learn anything as I think that they believe that they have ordained the way of the Church, and I will leave that there.

Also that is quite a history you have there.When was your grandfather there, during the 2nd war?

As I said , do a little studying on the different congregations, talk with your wife about it , but most important, FIRST pray about it. Ask the Lord where He wants you to go. It may be that he wants you there where you are right now ( and you can't see that, but He can) , or somewhere else, let Him lead you, I know one thing for sure: He will never lead you wrong!

 

[MissytheButterfly]

8th April 2003 at 09:12 PM sfg said this in Post #11

I am contemplating now looking for a Messianic congregation but I have an allergy against the legalistic approach. Do you think I would feel at home there. I hope so, I am really stating to lose faith in the church.

It is not like I don't want to, everywhere I have been they have purposely held me down in every instance.

Oy weh's mir
Oh it really hurts me

You may be able to locate a more liberal messianic congregation if you have an "allergy" as you call it.. (heehee) to the legalistic approach. Since the majority of Messianic believers are Gentiles from what I understand, there seems to be a more liberal approach to certain things reguarding Mosiac Law in some of the congregations that are predominately Gentile. So perhaps you could look on the net and read up on some congregations around where you live (if any) and visit some of them.

Also there are churches that are "interdenominational" meaning that you can attend church services there and the minister is usually a Christian pastor that is respectful of all beliefs and tries to accomadate the various people that attend his church. No one set rule of faith is pushed on anyone in the majority of these churches. So perhaps somewhere like that might be an outlet for you.

Missy

 

[Bran]

I am sorry that this has happen to you, I have had the same experience and it is very difficult if you look under Hebrew Heritage or United Hebrew Congregations -- you can find a congregation. I attend messianic congregation and love it the Rabbi is Jewish and so is the most of the congregation, love it... You may have to open your home for Shabbat. I know this is hard there is only one messianic congregation here where I live. And yes the pastors here treat me like a disease and the church memebers. Let me know if you get some help, please post.

 

[Ruhama]

Hiya Bran Welcome!

 

[Woodsy]

I have always been made to feel very welcome in the churches I have attended. I think sometimes they are just so happy to see a Jewish Believer - I'm like a novelty or something.


But still, I have investigated Messianic Congregations. A problem I have had is that the worship all tends to be very "Contemporary," and I'm not a "tambourine-banging-during-worship-services" kinda guy.
Also, the congregations I have attended have had very few Jews and the Jews who did attend knew less about Judaism than did the Gentiles present. It made me very uncomfortable.

 

[Drotar]

You need to look hard to find a dispensational church. Denton Bible is EXTREMELY adamant about our view. I'm glad for that. I would have hated to have joined the masses among replacement theology.