I just have to get this out. I have purposely been avoiding going to Sabbath School this quarter and considered leaving the church over the wording of Jesus being 100% divine/100% human and over some of the explanations I have read about this new view of Christ by the church. I have been Adventist all my life, and this view has never been presented to me. It troubles my soul whenever I hear that doctrine repeated. One link posted on here recently had an Adventist writer stating that Jesus' nature was that of man AFTER the fall. This is a new view of Christ, as it used to be stated in the Fundamental beliefs that he had the nature of Adam BEFORE the fall. This has shaken me. I do not want to be the voice of dissent at my church, so I say nothing. I do not believe that God wants us to follow blindly and I feel troubled in my soul about this doctrine. I believe the Holy Spirit is telling me that this is wrong. I do not know where to go from here. I still attend church, and I am trying not to let this difference in view cloud the truths I have learned in my journey. I guess I am not looking for a response, I just needed to get it out!
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Anyone Else having trouble with the Sabbath School Lesson
- Thread starter catmommy
- Start date
How about this:
If He wasn't 100% human then how could He have died?
And if He wasn't 100% God then why would He have dared to allow Thomas to refer to Him as God without correcting him? John 20:28
If He wasn't 100% human then how could He have died?
And if He wasn't 100% God then why would He have dared to allow Thomas to refer to Him as God without correcting him? John 20:28
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Hi Catmommy,
Thank you for sharing your concerns. I agree with you in that it is somewhat disturbing that there seems to be so much controversy over Christ and His nature.
While I think I know what the writers of the current SS Lessons are trying to say I also think they haven't said it well or as well as they should have. I will make no attempt to clarify their position but I would like to share my personal perspective.
The key to Christ's nature to me is well defined by the plan of salvation as explained in the Bible. The first thing that needs to be understood is that there are two great mysteries in the Bible. First; The mystery of iniquity. Where did sin come from and how was it possible for Lucifer to have sinned against his Creator? Second; The mystery of Godlyness. How could God have known this would happen, yet didn't prevent it, and at the same planed an escape route with the plan of salvation for a fallen world? For us to begin to comprend the totality of this increadible kind of love will take eternity with our Creator. The finite can not comprehind the infinite. With this in mind I presonaly try to understand Christ and His nature only from my finite human understanding.
The very first thing we must remember is that we are told over and over in Scripture that Christ was just like us. He endured every trial and tempation that has ever befallen any human being. We are told in Hebrews 4:15:
So what was the difference in the nature of Christ that allowed Him to live a life free form sin while you and I fail completely? Did He have some mysterious advantage because He was also the Son of God? Why can't we live without sinning? Is it possible for any of us today live without sinning?
The answers to these questions is that Juses Christ lived his life exactly as we do with one exception. That exception is available to each of us today but we simply don't take advantage of it. What was the advantage you ask?
Jesus Christ demonstrated a complete faith in, and a complete dependency on, God the Father. Christ told the diciples in Matt. 17:20;
Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc
Thank you for sharing your concerns. I agree with you in that it is somewhat disturbing that there seems to be so much controversy over Christ and His nature.
While I think I know what the writers of the current SS Lessons are trying to say I also think they haven't said it well or as well as they should have. I will make no attempt to clarify their position but I would like to share my personal perspective.
The key to Christ's nature to me is well defined by the plan of salvation as explained in the Bible. The first thing that needs to be understood is that there are two great mysteries in the Bible. First; The mystery of iniquity. Where did sin come from and how was it possible for Lucifer to have sinned against his Creator? Second; The mystery of Godlyness. How could God have known this would happen, yet didn't prevent it, and at the same planed an escape route with the plan of salvation for a fallen world? For us to begin to comprend the totality of this increadible kind of love will take eternity with our Creator. The finite can not comprehind the infinite. With this in mind I presonaly try to understand Christ and His nature only from my finite human understanding.
The very first thing we must remember is that we are told over and over in Scripture that Christ was just like us. He endured every trial and tempation that has ever befallen any human being. We are told in Hebrews 4:15:
The second thing that we need to remember is that he came into this world as a newborn infant just like you and me. At birth, neither Jesus Christ nor you and I had commited any sin. We may now conclude that Jesus Christ came into this world with no advantage over any human being that has ever lived because we all came into this world by the same means and with an absence of sin. We can also conclude that Jesus had to have the exact same nature as the rest of humanity.
So what was the difference in the nature of Christ that allowed Him to live a life free form sin while you and I fail completely? Did He have some mysterious advantage because He was also the Son of God? Why can't we live without sinning? Is it possible for any of us today live without sinning?
The answers to these questions is that Juses Christ lived his life exactly as we do with one exception. That exception is available to each of us today but we simply don't take advantage of it. What was the advantage you ask?
Jesus Christ demonstrated a complete faith in, and a complete dependency on, God the Father. Christ told the diciples in Matt. 17:20;
While there is much discussion about Christ nature what I have stated here is the reality of His nature. This I can understand.
Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc
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O
OntheDL
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Hebrews 2:5-8. "For unto the angels bath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visits him? Thou made him a little lower than the angels; thou crowned him with glory and honor, and did set him over the works of thy hands: thou has put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him."
Christ is here presented as being lower than the angels, though crowned with glory and honor. He is shown to be very man, as truly as in the first chapter He was shown to be very God. His humanity enables Him to be the kind of high priest men need.
It is an ever-present source of comfort to the Christian to know that Christ understands our sorrows and perplexities, and sympathizes with us. If Christ had not become man, the question might easily have arisen, How can we know that God loves and cares for us when He never experienced the trials we encounter, has never been poor or forsaken, and has never known what it is to be alone and face an unknown future? He asks us to be faithful to death, but He has never faced the issues we face. If He were one of us and one with us, He would know how hard it is to meet certain trials. But if He has never been man, does He really know all our sorrows, and can He sympathize with us when we stray?
To this we unhesitatingly answer that God, as God, does know, and that it was not for His sake, but for ours, that He became poor; it was not for His but for our sake that He suffered and died. We needed the demonstration that Christ came to give, or we would never have known the deep love of God for suffering humanity; nor would we have known the suffering which sin has brought to the heart of God.
"All heaven suffered in Christ's agony; but that suffering did not begin or end with His manifestation in humanity. The cross is a revelation to our dull senses of the pain that, from its very inception, sin has brought to the heart of God." - Education. p. 263.
Christ is here presented as being lower than the angels, though crowned with glory and honor. He is shown to be very man, as truly as in the first chapter He was shown to be very God. His humanity enables Him to be the kind of high priest men need.
It is an ever-present source of comfort to the Christian to know that Christ understands our sorrows and perplexities, and sympathizes with us. If Christ had not become man, the question might easily have arisen, How can we know that God loves and cares for us when He never experienced the trials we encounter, has never been poor or forsaken, and has never known what it is to be alone and face an unknown future? He asks us to be faithful to death, but He has never faced the issues we face. If He were one of us and one with us, He would know how hard it is to meet certain trials. But if He has never been man, does He really know all our sorrows, and can He sympathize with us when we stray?
To this we unhesitatingly answer that God, as God, does know, and that it was not for His sake, but for ours, that He became poor; it was not for His but for our sake that He suffered and died. We needed the demonstration that Christ came to give, or we would never have known the deep love of God for suffering humanity; nor would we have known the suffering which sin has brought to the heart of God.
"All heaven suffered in Christ's agony; but that suffering did not begin or end with His manifestation in humanity. The cross is a revelation to our dull senses of the pain that, from its very inception, sin has brought to the heart of God." - Education. p. 263.
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I believe the Holy Spirit is telling me that this is wrong.
How can you be sure its the holy spirit???
Just curious.
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Well here is my 2 cents..
Satan wants man to believe that Christ had a advantage so the whole thing is a charade, just Christ going through the motions in a play fooling us as if He was just like us with the same suffering and temptation.
So we have to discern, was Christ made flesh and yet still the great I AM, or was it all a charade, and Christ never knew what it was to be like us.
It's as simple as that..
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Thank you! I feel sometimes people try to create a doctorine when the correct answer is "Only God Knows." That is the way I feel about this lesson. We do not know from scripture the 200% rule, it is all speculation. I mean, who did Cain marry-according to the bible Eve only had Cain and Able. There are many mysteries in the bible, and when humans try to explain heavenly things with earthly understanding, it gets muddled. I have decided to skip Sabbath school until this quarter is over, and then resume going during the next lesson. The positive in all of this is that I am once again searching the scriptures and realizing that we need to study for ourselves.
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capnator
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The way I heard it explained is that Christ's Nature was the same as our fallen nature once we accept Christ and are filled with the spirit- a new creation/born again.
Rom 8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Well I might be wrong but I currently think of it as Christ's nature is the same as our's once we are born again.
1Jo 4:2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Phl 2:5¶Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
What we know is that he became one of us!
Hbr 4:15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
He went through what we go through. He was victorious and through his victory we can have victory.
1Cr 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Cr 15:57But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
We can do what Christ did, and are to follow the example of who he was.
Jhn 14:12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
We are to be what he was. Mat 10:24The disciple is not above [his] master, nor the servant above his lord.
Luk 6:46And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
What else do we need to know? He was like us, He went through what we go through, We are told to be like him!
Rom 8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Well I might be wrong but I currently think of it as Christ's nature is the same as our's once we are born again.
1Jo 4:2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Phl 2:5¶Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
What we know is that he became one of us!
Hbr 4:15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
He went through what we go through. He was victorious and through his victory we can have victory.
1Cr 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Cr 15:57But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
We can do what Christ did, and are to follow the example of who he was.
Jhn 14:12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
We are to be what he was. Mat 10:24The disciple is not above [his] master, nor the servant above his lord.
Luk 6:46And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
What else do we need to know? He was like us, He went through what we go through, We are told to be like him!
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J
Jim Larmore
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It's always good to remember what Jesus said while He was here. One of His statements tells us a lot about this discussion. He said , when speaking of the miracles He performed that it wasn't Him doing the work but the Father. Could this include His ability to withstand temptation and sin as well? Why not? As a man He was totally dependent on His Father as we should be now. To be Christian we need be like Christ. So think about this for a few minutes and contemplate the reality of the nature of our savior.
God Bless
Jim Larmore
God Bless
Jim Larmore
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