Any unusual situations experienced at church because you're female?

[High Fidelity]

I've only ever encountered that level of inappropriate behaviour once from a minister, but it's very common from other men in church, judging by my own experiences in many churches over the years. One guy at a local Anglican church had a real reputation - I didn't go to that church, but he was a real pest at any united services - you always had to watch where he was. But get this - the last time he tried that on me, I jabbed him in the stomach really hard with my elbow...and three older women nearby told me I should apologise to him for my 'overreaction'. I wonder if women would have to experience so much of this type of behaviour if so many older ladies didn't have the 'just deal with it dear; it's part of being a woman' attitude.

I think that's definitely part of it. Look at all of these things surfacing with male celebrities. A lot of it is because it was normalised.

 

[AnnaDeborah]

I think that's definitely part of it. Look at all of these things surfacing with male celebrities. A lot of it is because it was normalised.

I had a very 'interesting' discussion with another CF member on a different thread, who really could not cope with the idea of women 'making a fuss' about such trivial matters. I've also had some very enlightening conversations face to face with men in various churches who would claim to be Christian. I find it quite frightening to see how deeply entrenched this sense of entitlement is in so many church-attending males and how irate they become at the very idea their fun might be curtailed in future. There is a serious need for some in-depth education on respect in many churches.

If this poor girl had objected or pushed him off at the time, I can guarantee she would have been vilified for causing a scene at a funeral, for 'making a fuss about nothing' or 'acting like a drama queen'. If she complains afterward, it will be 'why didn't she say it was a problem at the time; she's just jumping on the bandwagon and trying to make trouble'. Either way, she will be viewed as the trouble maker. And if she doesn't do anything about it...'well she hasn't complained, so it's obviously not a problem.' Sometimes, you just can't win.

 

[bekkilyn]

I wonder if women would have to experience so much of this type of behaviour if so many older ladies didn't have the 'just deal with it dear; it's part of being a woman' attitude.

This attitude often bothers me more than the men's behavior. It's a learned behavior where women are taught since birth to always "be nice" and to police others into the same behavior, but I get irked by it all the same.

 

[PloverWing]

But get this - the last time he tried that on me, I jabbed him in the stomach really hard with my elbow...and three older women nearby told me I should apologise to him for my 'overreaction'.

Yes, we women are taught from early childhood to be polite, smooth things over, don't make a fuss. I have wondered lately how the MeToo dynamics would change if it was socially acceptable to haul off and punch a guy who gropes you, right there on the spot, a sort of instant Klingon justice. He touched me, I touched him, there, we're even.

 

[Dave-W]

Yes, we women are taught from early childhood to be polite, smooth things over, don't make a fuss. I have wondered lately how the MeToo dynamics would change if it was socially acceptable to haul off and punch a guy who gropes you, right there on the spot, a sort of instant Klingon justice. He touched me, I touched him, there, we're even.

Ooooo. I like that idea. If the first girl (or first several girls) that Dr Nassar fondled had done that, it may have dissuaded him from groping the next couple of hundred ...

 

[Deidre32]

When I was Catholic, I was treated inferior to men. I left Christianity five years ago, and identified as an atheist for a few years, then came back to faith two years ago, and attend a non-denominational church sometimes, and it's night and day to that Catholic experience. Everyone is treated with kindness and love, and women are not looked down upon.

 

[Dave-W]

I am glad you found a Good non-denom. Many are as bad as the old line fundamentalists.

 

[Deidre32]

I am glad you found a Good non-denom. Many are as bad as the old line fundamentalists.

You’ll know them by their fruits, as Jesus said.

 

[bekkilyn]

I am glad you found a Good non-denom. Many are as bad as the old line fundamentalists.

Maybe it's just me being judgmental, but I tend to assume a non-denominational church is one of the bad ones until proven otherwise. Maybe it's because I have yet to run into one (at least a Christ-focused or bible-based one) that doesn't support some form of complementarianism (based solely on gender) as part of their doctrine.

I never could stomach the idea of being Catholic for various reasons concerning doctrine that I very strongly disagree with, but even if I loved practically everything about it, the fact that they are so bigoted against women (as an organization) would keep me away from even considering it, and based on some discussions I've had with people on this forum, it would be unlikely to change in my generation...or the next fifteen generations...or fifteen times fifteen....because even if a particular Catholic belief is unbiblical, it's still their tradition and that seems to have a stronger weight in their denomination.

 

[Paidiske]

I thought this was a really valuable reflection on some of these themes:

https://youngclergywomen.org/tainted-love/

 

[bekkilyn]

I thought this was a really valuable reflection on some of these themes:

https://youngclergywomen.org/tainted-love/

It brought this verse to mind:

"and the Lord said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them." 1 Samuel 8:7

For this article I was kind of also reading it in the sense of:

And the Lord said, they are not spitting on you but on me.

In the end, I am glad that they did not drive her completely away from the ministry God called her to.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I've found more odd situations based on my being a single woman compared to married women. E.g. a number of years back, a close friend invited me to her wedding. There was the standard bit in the church notices the previous week that 'any members of the congregation who would like to see the couple marry are welcome to attend the service'. Five minutes before the service was due to start, one of the deacons tapped me on the shoulder (where I was sitting in the seats reserved for those who had received a formal, personal invitation to the wedding and reception) and asked me to go out and look after the children of some of the church members who had popped in to watch the service. "It would be nice for them to have a break from looking after their children and be able to watch the service in peace". I pointed out that I had been formally invited to attend, my friends would be very disappointed if I wasn't there and someone who hadn't received a personal invitation should look after the kids. "Oh, but none of them are single. They have to look after children all the time, so it's not fair to expect them to look after other people's."

I would tell the deacon to look after them himself because it's not fair for you to look after other people's children.