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any support for Israel

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by delta-team, May 29, 2018.

  1. Dkh587

    Dkh587 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When the Scriptures talk about Israel, it’s talking about God’s people/the Israelites, not the 1948 state of Israel.

    We have no obligation to the man made state of so-called Israel
     
  2. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    But Jesus and his apostles were Jews so maybe that statement needs some qualification.
     
  3. marineimaging

    marineimaging Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

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    Does it make any difference that we was speaking to the scribes and Pharisees who had brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; to test him? He was not speaking to all Jews, all of Israel. Only to those who threatened to stone him and caused him to have to hide and run away.
     
  4. Inkfingers

    Inkfingers Somebody's heretic Supporter

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    He was pointing out how the huge majority of the Jews did not believe in him, and why.
     
  5. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    It is the same today. The living case for Israel is for me based on Messianic Jews who are less than 1% of Israels population.
     
  6. Inkfingers

    Inkfingers Somebody's heretic Supporter

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    Yup, people need to think on John 8:39 and take it in.

    There are those who recognise Christ, and then there are the rest who are NOT the children of Abraham, the Devil is their father, and they do not know God. Hence the fact (iirc) that there was no Ark, and thus no Mercy seat, in the second Temple.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  7. dude99

    dude99 Newbie

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    Meanwhile the USA and the West supported Saddam with the war against Iran.
    The Reagan Administration secretly decided to provide highly classified intelligence to Iraq in the spring of 1982 -- more than two years earlier than previously disclosed -- while also permitting the sale of American-made arms to Baghdad in a successful effort to help President Saddam Hussein avert imminent defeat in the war with Iran, former intelligence and State Department officials say.

    The American decision to lend crucial help to Baghdad so early in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war came after American intelligence agencies warned that Iraq was on the verge of being overrun by Iran, whose army was bolstered the year before by covert shipments of American-made weapons.
    U.S. Secretly Gave Aid to Iraq Early in Its War Against Iran

    Also can you explain to me why Israel also supplied weapons to Iran during the 1980s even though they were staunch enemies?
     
  8. Barney2.0

    Barney2.0 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They were staunch enemies even back then, but between two monsters better to kill the one that poses a bigger threat. Anyhow no one is saying America is innocent of war crimes.
     
  9. Randy777

    Randy777 Well-Known Member

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    About Davids line - Jesus is the most exalted and Jesus was appointed to the line of David and fulfills Gods promise to David that his line would be on the throne forever So our religion is pro Zion but a nation does not bring salvation to its people. Jesus does. A time came along time ago when Jesus stated the worshipers that God seeks are those who worship in Spirit and in truth.

    And I will appoint him to be my firstborn,
    the most exalted of the kings of the earth.
    28 I will maintain my love to him forever,
    and my covenant with him will never fail.
    29 I will establish his line forever,
    his throne as long as the heavens endure.

    Jesus's kingdom is not of this world but He is king of the Jews. And on the last day Jesus will gather His own from the ends of the heavens and the Kingdom of this world shall become the kingdom of God and His Christ. A everlasting kingdom that can never be destroyed.

    Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”
    34“Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked, “or did others talk to you about me?”
    35“Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “Your own people and chief priests handed you over to me. What is it you have done?”
    36Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”
    37“You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
    Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

     
  10. marineimaging

    marineimaging Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

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    I tried to go back in the past and stick myself into politics but I couldn't find the right door to get into the White House to ask the past presidents why they did what they did. Especially the dead ones. As to Israel and the OP and this forum, the question was "what exactly is a christian's obligation to Israel?" We can't ask the past if it doesn't want to tell us, but God wanted to tell us and He did it in the Word and the Word said, "I will curse those who curse you and bless those who bless you." Now, I don't know about you, but that seems pretty clear to me. Especially when you see that Israel as a whole has not been removed, but with the 144,000 in the end times it is pretty clear that Israel will still be there and active in Gods plan. But, for what it is worth that is just what I read.
     
  11. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Advisory team Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    MOD HAT

    This thread was moved from Christian Advice to the General Theology forum. Christian Advice is for more personal issues and not theology.

     
  12. marineimaging

    marineimaging Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

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    You are correct, there are a lot of secular Jews. But, before you slap all of Israel in the face just keep in mind that in the end times there will be 144,000 commissioned toward a conversion opportunity ordained by the same God we call our Creator and there focus will be on that secular bunch.
     
  13. dude99

    dude99 Newbie

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    Meanwhile Saddam used chemical weapons and even used it on the Kurds in the war in the 1980s. So what was the US response then? Nothing. Meanwhile the US and allies with the support of Israel bombs Syria due to the use of chemical weapons. If the Syrian regime was an US ally the US would have done nothing either.

    Meanwhile Saddam turned against the USA when he discovered the US and Israel was secretly arming Iran in the 1980s.
     
  14. Barney2.0

    Barney2.0 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Only Israel was arming Iran not the US which was arming Iraq, the US turned against Saddam after he became an uncontrollable monster and invaded Kuwait, and later made plans to invade Saudi Arabia, which if he succeeded in doing would most likely make him one of the most powerful men in the world. What the US does is its business, no one says the US isn’t wrong, israel isn’t bombing Syria for no reason, it’s because Iran wants to use it as a military base.
     
  15. dude99

    dude99 Newbie

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    Yet George Bush snr and Jnr is still alive. Same with Donald Rumsfeld. I remember Christian evangelicals supporting the war against Iraq due to Saddam support for the so called Palestianian terrorists and believe he still has chemical weapons as well as beliving him to be part of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Yet the chemcial weapons was proven to be a lie. Most of the terrorists for the 9/11 came from the US ally Saudi Arabia. Iraq is now under Iranian sphere of Influence and with it a greater danger to Israel than what was under Saddam. Also the refugee problem since Saddam has been out of control and the resultant was more and more refugees fleeing to Europe.

    Well regarding the Jews, it seems a majority of Jews are out of touch of the pro Israeli Ameican evangelicals. In 2016 American Jews on average had an higher favourable opinion on Bernie Sanders than on Hilary or Trump. Plus they are much more likely to be liberal. American Opinion Regarding U.S. Middle East Policy

    Also younger American Jews are overwhelmingly liberal in their politics – even more so than other young Americans. They are also “dovish” in their attitudes toward the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. As Israel turns 70, many young American Jews turn awayAlso the Israeli Natalie Portman, the Oscar-winning actress, refused an award because she will be seen with the Israel Prime Minister.
     
  16. dude99

    dude99 Newbie

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    such double standards for US Iraqi policy.
    n 1988, Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein ordered chemical weapons attacks against Kurdish resistance forces, but the relationship with Iraq at the time was deemed too important to rupture over the matter. The United States did not even impose sanctions.

    Without much apparent irony, two decades later Rumsfeld and other members of the then George W. Bush administration repeatedly cited Hussein’s use of chemical weapons against own people as a justification for invading Iraq. (Pelosi spokesman Drew Hammill did not respond to questions about her views on how the Reagan administration handled the Iraqi situation.)Analysis | History lesson: When the United States looked the other way on chemical weapons
     
  17. Dale

    Dale Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You are confusing the Jewish religion with the State of Israel. They aren't the same thing at all. In fact, one of the greatest controversies in the State of Israel today is that ultra-orthodox Jews, a considerable part of the population, refuse to serve in the Army. The religion and the state aren't the same thing, although there are connections between them.

    I would suggest to you that God had a plan for Paul while he was still Saul, and while he was still persecuting Christians. I would suggest to you as well that God has a plan for the State of Israel and the nation it defends and a plan for the Jewish people as well--even if you think they are on the wrong side of the religious divide at the moment.
     
  18. marineimaging

    marineimaging Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

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    You seem well indoctrinated and up to date on recent and current events. Personally I don't have time to devote to studying all those issues. All I know is curse and bless..., I understand those words purty goodly.
     
  19. Dale

    Dale Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I would caution you against referring to any ethnic group or any religion as "the seed of Satan." You quote Genesis Three right after this. Yet Genesis Three says nothing about Jews. Abraham and Jacob weren't around yet, that happened much later.

    You also refer to the Synagogue of Satan in the first chapters of Revelation. The phrase "Synagogue of Satan" meant that there were ten men, and their families, who were Judaizers. In the Jewish law, ten men were required to have a synagogue.
    Don't generalize this phrase, which had a very specific meaning when it was used in Revelation, to mean other things entirely. There is no sign that it applies to our time.
     
  20. football5680

    football5680 Well-Known Member

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    There are no obligations for the man-made state of Israel. If they convert to Christianity then there would be an obligation, but there is no reason to support one group of unbelievers over another group of unbelievers. I wouldn't trust much of what Hagee says.
     
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