Any other book

[Hentenza]

I believe that the scripture is God's word, but people seem to be using "inspired by" in an odd way. And I was just curious to know what they think "inspired by" means.

By the way, is: "inspired by God" and "inspiration of God" the same thing?

Biblically, inspiration is given by God not of God. That is a typical misunderstanding by pantheists.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Biblically, inspiration is given by God not of God. That is a typical misunderstanding by pantheists.

Well,

1 Timothy 3:16-17

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.​

This verse is saying that Scripture is given by the inspiration of God, so I just don't understand what people say that scripture is "inspired by God" but yet they don't think its His words/concepts/ideas/etc.... So, that's why I asked if there a difference between "inspired by God" and "inspiration of God?". So, I guess what I really mean is, what does "inspiration" mean to people?

 

[peace4ever]

Biblically, inspiration is given by God not of God. That is a typical misunderstanding by pantheists.

To clear up the confusion, scripture is God as John 1:1-2, John 1:14, and Hebrews 4:12 explain. "The word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing bone and marrow; it judges the thoughts of the heart."

The Word itself is the power of God. That's why people are either convicted or saved by it. That's also why when one receives Jesus in His heart, he also receives the Word in his heart, along with God's Spirit which is the Holy Spirit.

The Word itself has tremendous power and energy because it's God's Word that created the world:

Genesis 1:3, "And God said; 'Let there be light,' and there was light.

Genesis 1:6, "And God said; "Let there be an expanse between waters....And it was so.

Psalm 32:6, "By the word of the Lord, the heavens were made...For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded and it stood firm."

So the Word is as alive and eternal as God is.

 

[Hentenza]

Well,

1 Timothy 3:16-17

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.​

This verse is saying that Scripture is given by the inspiration of God, so I just don't understand what people say that scripture is "inspired by God" but yet they don't think its His words/concepts/ideas/etc.... So, that's why I asked if there a difference between "inspired by God" and "inspiration of God?". So, I guess what I really mean is, what does "inspiration" mean to people?

The verse is right (of course lol). What I meant by inspiration being given by God is that some folks (other extreme btw) believe that scripture is God (of God). The bible claims inspiration by God which means that the authors wrote the text as the main cause with God as the second cause which keeps away the error of mechanical dictation. The inspiration (second cause) kept the authors from error but only on the originals. What some folks believe is that since we don't have the originals then there is no way to compare but that of course is wrong given the sheer amount of extant texts from different times and places that shows the accuracy of the present text. There is no book from antiquity that even approximates to the level of accuracy of the bible. God has guarded His word and proven the bible's inspiration.

 

[Hentenza]

To clear up the confusion, scripture is God as John 1:1-2, John 1:14, and Hebrews 4:12 explain. "The word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing bone and marrow; it judges the thoughts of the heart."

The Word itself is the power of God. That's why people are either convicted or saved by it. That's also why when one receives Jesus in His heart, he also receives the Word in his heart, along with God's Spirit which is the Holy Spirit.

The Word itself has tremendous power and energy because it's God's Word that created the world:

Genesis 1:3, "And God said; 'Let there be light,' and there was light.

Genesis 1:6, "And God said; "Let there be an expanse between waters....And it was so.

Psalm 32:6, "By the word of the Lord, the heavens were made...For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded and it stood firm."

So the Word is as alive and eternal as God is.

No, scripture is not God. That would be the same as saying that creation is God versus creation is by God. Jesus is the Word while scripture is God's word. There is a huge difference. The word is indeed alive but not eternal since the word will pass when Jesus returns. No words will ever pass until Jesus returns.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

The verse is right (of course lol). What I meant by inspiration being given by God is that some folks (other extreme btw) believe that scripture is God (of God). The bible claims inspiration by God which means that the authors wrote the text as the main cause with God as the second cause which keeps away the error of mechanical dictation. The inspiration (second cause) kept the authors from error but only on the originals. What some folks believe is that since we don't have the originals then there is no way to compare but that of course is wrong given the sheer amount of extant texts from different times and places that shows the accuracy of the present text. There is no book from antiquity that even approximates to the level of accuracy of the bible. God has guarded His word and proven the bible's inspiration.

Why would man use God as a second cause, seeing as He is the reason they are writing--shouldn't He be the first cause?

But just think about the phrase and what it says,
"All Scripture is GIVEN by INSPIRATION of God."
Who is inspiring the scripture for men to write? God!

 

[Hentenza]

Why would man use God as a second cause, seeing as He is the reason they are writing--shouldn't He be the first cause?

But just think about the phrase and what it says,
"All Scripture is GIVEN by INSPIRATION of God."
Who is inspiring the scripture for men to write? God!

The problem comes when attempting to understand how the bible is inspired. The mode is a mystery while the result is provable. If God is the main cause then the authors did not have free will to write it. In other words, God dictated the bible. The problem with that line of reasoning is that you can plainly see the author's own literary styles, likes and dislikes, etc. throughout the books of scripture. The bible authors are prophets of God which basically speak the word of God but they speak it analogically not univocally. To claim univocal with God is to claim infinite knowledge which only an inifinite being possesses. I know this is a hard concept to understand but one must look at the attributes of God. Man can understand God's attibutes in a finite manner while predicating them to God in an infinite manner. The result is a bible that men wrote by inspiration of God. God can not err, the bible is the word of God, therefore it follows that the bible is without error.

ETA: In a casualty argument, the pen (authors) is the firs cause since it cause the words to be written on the paper. The second cause is God guiding them to what He willed to be written.

 

[peace4ever]

No, scripture is not God. That would be the same as saying that creation is God versus creation is by God. Jesus is the Word while scripture is God's word. There is a huge difference. The word is indeed alive but not eternal since the word will pass when Jesus returns. No words will ever pass until Jesus returns.

Wrong. John 1;1-2, "In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning." That describes the trinity perfectly and also includes the Word because the Word itself is God. That's why the word is living." Scripture is the only living Word.

John 1;14, "And the Word became flesh." Jesus is God incarnate. Notice it says the Word became flesh which is one and the same as God.

So you can't use human reasoning to understand the bible because humans reasoning comes from finite minds. God's reasoning comes from the Spirit of God which is alive and eternal. Just agree with scripture and you'll have no problem.

Jesus said, "My words will never pass away." So you are incorrect. He didn't say; 'My words will never pass away until I return." You have added your words to the bible and I guarantee you, your words will pass away. So it's a waste of time to add to scripture. The truth can never stop being the truth. So Christ's words will never pass away throughout all of eternity.

 

[pgp_protector]

...snip...

ETA: In a casualty argument, the pen (authors) is the firs cause since it cause the words to be written on the paper. The second cause is God guiding them to what He willed to be written.

So God willed them to write that they weren't controlled, but inspired ?

 

[Hentenza]

Wrong. John 1;1-2, "In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning." That describes the trinity perfectly and also includes the Word because the Word itself is God. That's why the word is living." Scripture is the only living Word.

John 1;14, "And the Word became flesh." Jesus is God incarnate. Notice it says the Word became flesh which is one and the same as God.

So you can't use human reasoning to understand the bible because humans reasoning comes from finite minds. God's reasoning comes from the Spirit of God which is alive and eternal. Just agree with scripture and you'll have no problem.

Here is how John 1:1-5 reads in the context used.

1 In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word (Jesus) was with God, and the Word (Jesus) was God. 2 He (Jesus) was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him (Jesus), and without Him (Jesus) nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him (Jesus) was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. (Edits mine)

Jesus is the Word (capital w). The scriptures are God's word (small w). You are replacing Jesus with scripture. That's a no no.

BTW- I am a bible literalist.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

The problem comes when attempting to understand how the bible is inspired. The mode is a mystery while the result is provable. If God is the main cause then the authors did not have free will to write it. In other words, God dictated the bible. The problem with that line of reasoning is that you can plainly see the author's own literary styles, likes and dislikes, etc. throughout the books of scripture. The bible authors are prophets of God which basically speak the word of God but they speak it analogically not univocally. To claim univocal with God is to claim infinite knowledge which only an inifinite being possesses. I know this is a hard concept to understand but one must look at the attributes of God. Man can understand God's attibutes in a finite manner while predicating them to God in an infinite manner. The result is a bible that men wrote by inspiration of God. God can not err, the bible is the word of God, therefore it follows that the bible is without error.

ETA: In a casualty argument, the pen (authors) is the firs cause since it cause the words to be written on the paper. The second cause is God guiding them to what He willed to be written.

I am not trying to prove the mode of which it was inspired, I'm just saying that God has inspired these men.

I don't understand this "the authors wrote the text as the main cause with God as the second cause which keeps away the error of mechanical dictation"? "Wrote the text as the main cause", what does that mean? If I say that God is the main reason for the authors to write, how exactly, logically, does that mean that God dictated it to them? And if we say that God is the second cause, how exactly, logically, does that mean the authors were kept away from the error of mechanical dictation?

 

[Hentenza]

So God willed them to write that they weren't controlled, but inspired ?

Yep!!! Just like all prophets in scripture are willed by God but not controlled by God.

 

[Jase]

I tell you what. When macroevolution is proven and when the creation of the universe from ex materia is proven then I will reevaluate my position. Until then all the scientists have is a bunch of theories.

Nothing in existence has proof Hentenza except Math. Macroevolution, however, has been recreated and observed in the lab, so it's as much "proven" as it will ever get. Evolution is fact, you're going to have to deal with that at some point and stop living under a rock.

 

[Hentenza]

I am not trying to prove the mode of which it was inspired, I'm just saying that God has inspired these men.

I don't understand this "the authors wrote the text as the main cause with God as the second cause which keeps away the error of mechanical dictation"? "Wrote the text as the main cause", what does that mean? If I say that God is the main reason for the authors to write, how exactly, logically, does that mean that God dictated it to them? And if we say that God is the second cause, how exactly, logically, does that mean the authors were kept away from the error of mechanical dictation?

As best as I understand it, remember the mode is a mystery, God did not hold the pen or dictated the words. If He had then the authors would have been mere puppets. Mechanical dictation takes the human nature of the bible away which is something that we see throughout the scriptures. Scripture, like Christ, has both a human nature and a divine nature. The physical words are the human nature while the inspiration by God is the divine nature. Basically, the authors wrote the words and God kept them from error.

 

[Hentenza]

Nothing in existence has proof Hentenza except Math. Macroevolution, however, has been recreated and observed in the lab, so it's as much "proven" as it will ever get. Evolution is fact, you're going to have to deal with that at some point and stop living under a rock.

Macroevolution has not been observed in nature nor has it been proven in the lab. There is absolutely no uncontested proof. Evolution (macro) is not a fact but merely a theory. I don't dispute microevolution. Evolution also does not address abiogenesis so the best science has to offer to prove the creation of the universe ex material is the big bang. And that is also merely a theory. Genesis 1 and 2 remain uncontested.

BTW- Keep the innuendos to yourself. If you can't debate civily then don't.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Nothing in existence has proof Hentenza except Math. Macroevolution, however, has been recreated and observed in the lab, so it's as much "proven" as it will ever get. Evolution is fact, you're going to have to deal with that at some point and stop living under a rock.

Really? What study was that? I want to read up on it.
The only research I remember was the Stanley Miller's experiment. I'm sure there's more, I guess I never paid attention to it.

 

[archierieus]

Macroevolution, however, has been recreated and observed in the lab,

Please define what you mean by 'macroevolution.' Do you mean crossing taxa, as in a fish becoming a horse, for example? Please provide a web link to a peer-reviewed publication detailing the recreating and observation of macroevolution in the lab.

 

[peace4ever]

Really? What study was that? I want to read up on it.
The only research I remember was the Stanley Miller's experiment. I'm sure there's more, I guess I never paid attention to it.

Macro evolution is as imaginary as the story of evolution because it's nothing more than looking at a living thing and imagining where it came from. There is no way to know where it came from unless someone actually saw it being produced from the original animal or living thing. Speculation is not evidence.

 

[wayseer]

Interesting how this thread has gravitated into yet another 'no one can prove evolution' thread. The OP actually had an interesting issue to discuss.

 

[ebia]

That means that the words that are "inspired" by God (like scripture) don't come from the human mind but from the Spirit of God.

Seeing it as an either/or is another sub-biblical idea. Scripture is written by people and breathed by God. .