Antinomianism and you

[Saint Steven]

When Paul states that we are no longer under law but grace, he's referring to the demands of the law in justice toward sin and the need to be righteous, whereas by grace in Christ through faith we are both covered with his blood and justified in his righteousness...

We are still under the obligation of the moral law, even the two commandments falls under this same law.

The rest of the story found in verses 21-31.

Galatians 4:21
Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?

 

[Jonaitis]

The rest of the story found in verses 21-31.

Galatians 4:21
Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?

The story continues 5:4:

"You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace."

It is about being justified...

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You had responded originally to my question about whether a poster was referring to "the law" as the Ten Commandments. (or what?) I'm not sure as to what law you are referring to. You eluded to Romans 7+8 earlier. (delight in God's law) Which is different than "the law".

The Ten Commandments are God's law or God's "moral" law, as distinct from all the ceremonial enhancements that were add on to make "the Law" as believed and practiced by the Jewish Pharisees. Jesus never criticized anyone who followed the Ten Commandments from his heart. He acknowledged that the rich young ruler's compliance with the Ten Commandments was commendable

The rest of the story found in verses 21-31.

Galatians 4:21
Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?

Paul is replying to those false apostles who went to the Gentile churches and taught that they must be circumcised and follow the Mosaic Law in order to be saved. This is Paul's definition of being "under the Law"

Let's not confuse salvation by faith in Christ, and the working of the Holy Spirit within believers to achieve holy living. The working of the Holy Spirit in believers for holy is for those who are already saved by faith in Christ.

Converted believers are not expected to go on doing the works of the flesh, as described in Galatians 5 after they have been saved by faith. They are expected to cooperate with the Holy Spirit within them to develop the fruit of the Spirit in their conduct and behaviour toward God and others.

It is interesting to note concerning observance of the Sabbath, that Saturday was the day off work for religious observance in Israel. Sunday was a work day, so the original Jewish believers who were still in Jerusalem worshiped in the Temple on Saturdays. When the Christian church became more formalised and accepted in the society, Sunday was made into a holiday for Christian worship. This is not to hijack the thread for a useless and pointless debate about whether Christians should observe the Saturday Sabbath or not, but I thought it would just insert it for information for those who may be interested.

 

[klutedavid]

When Paul states that we are no longer under law but grace, he's referring to the demands of the law in justice toward sin and the need to be righteous, whereas by grace in Christ through faith we are both covered with his blood and justified in his righteousness...

We are still under the obligation of the moral law, even the two commandments falls under this same law.

What you stated is not the case.

Paul says simply that the Gentiles are not under the law.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

The Gentiles are not under law be it moral or otherwise.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What you stated is not the case.

Paul says simply that the Gentiles are not under the law.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

The Gentiles are not under law be it moral or otherwise.

What I have tried to do is to show that because we are under grace through faith in Christ, we do not continue in sin. If we do continue in sin, then we are treading the grace of God and the death of Christ under foot.

 

[ace of hearts]

Antinomianism is a later term meaning "against the law". It doesn't mean some act that violates the law, but describes the idea that the entirety of the old testament law is abolished. Hence an individual who is against the law. If the law is abolished there is no sin, so a person can behave themself any way they want to and still be justified.

Is there anyone here who holds to that belief or do you know anyone who does?

I don't see how anyone could be what is called involved in antinomianism as discussed in this forum. Generally for this forum it only means one who refuses to keep the 7th day sabbath. No one in this forum teaches murder, lying, theft, adultery, etc. It's however presented that not doing any of those things is obedience to the famous 10. I don't see how an unbeliever for instance could be said to be keeping the law. If the issue is sin, it was before the law and given because of sin (Rom 5:13, Gal 3:19). Yes Christians are supposedly against sin. I say supposedly because of the world around me.

Paul can't say we are now delivered from the law and promote the law as a rule to live by Rom 7:6; Rom 2 and 3.

All pro law people claim justification because they keep the law. They cite Rom 2:13 about doers being justified and forget Rom 3:23 and Ps 14:3. There are no doers of the law. I don't think you'll find any pro law people willing to discuss Ex 20:8-11 especially verse 10 in detail. The law only condemns and sentences. The law always gets its way. Something always dies for sin - no exceptions.

Interesting enough the pro law person always runs from the law to grace. That in reality makes the law void if they get grace making the law worthless.

If commandments are law, the Christians isn't without law because of JN 13:34 a commandment of Jesus and 1 JN 3:23 a commandment of God to do JN 13:34 and more.

We have problems in Christian circles because of misinformation, out right fraud to control others and actually the masses because of their love for such. Very few understand the spiritual side of life and think only in their carnal nature. This result in what is known as the revolving door in many churches and religious organizations. One I know of looses more than comes in the front door destroying many.

 

[Saint Steven]

The Ten Commandments are God's law or God's "moral" law, as distinct from all the ceremonial enhancements that were add on to make "the Law" as believed and practiced by the Jewish Pharisees. Jesus never criticized anyone who followed the Ten Commandments from his heart. He acknowledged that the rich young ruler's compliance with the Ten Commandments was commendable

Paul is replying to those false apostles who went to the Gentile churches and taught that they must be circumcised and follow the Mosaic Law in order to be saved. This is Paul's definition of being "under the Law"

Let's not confuse salvation by faith in Christ, and the working of the Holy Spirit within believers to achieve holy living. The working of the Holy Spirit in believers for holy is for those who are already saved by faith in Christ.

Converted believers are not expected to go on doing the works of the flesh, as described in Galatians 5 after they have been saved by faith. They are expected to cooperate with the Holy Spirit within them to develop the fruit of the Spirit in their conduct and behaviour toward God and others.

It is interesting to note concerning observance of the Sabbath, that Saturday was the day off work for religious observance in Israel. Sunday was a work day, so the original Jewish believers who were still in Jerusalem worshiped in the Temple on Saturdays. When the Christian church became more formalised and accepted in the society, Sunday was made into a holiday for Christian worship. This is not to hijack the thread for a useless and pointless debate about whether Christians should observe the Saturday Sabbath or not, but I thought it would just insert it for information for those who may be interested.

I respectfully disagree with the majority of your post.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I respectfully disagree with the majority of your post.

That is your right.

 

[Saint Steven]

That is your right.

Thanks Oscarr. I like and respect you too much to argue with you.

 

[Saint Steven]

Paul can't say we are now delivered from the law and promote the law as a rule to live by Rom 7:6; Rom 2 and 3.

Let's read that one.

Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

 

[HTacianas]

There are reasons for it's being "abolished" in a born-again believers life, and it is not these or "this": "so a person can behave themself any way they want to and still be justified." That's not it at all... Your missing the point and the real purpose of the law...

"Abolished" can mean "finished, done away with, or completed, or true intended purpose complete or completed, and now it's on to something else, anyway...

Their is still a purpose for the law, so it is not entirely done away with yet... but not for the "born again Christian", for them it is already done... Becomes "past tense" ect... "Passes away", ect, (like Paul says)...

After Judgement Day, and during the thousand year reign of Christ and (some) of his people at that time on earth, the law will be completely done away with at that time, after the judgement, cause that is what it is and what it does... And after that it no longer has any more need or purpose...

The law was never meant to save, nor was the law ever meant to show us "the way" or path to Salvation (found in Jesus, in the NT, NC)... The law that you refer to, was only meant as a lawgiver and judge, and in that judgment to pronounce us guilty, but beyond that, nothing else, it leaves you there, nothing added or continued from there, and beyond that, it's purpose is done and completed and over with after that... anyway, nothing added or continued, or no continuation from there, until you get into Christ and the NC... It is continued from there...

And/but, if you don't start from there, I think your a "wolf in sheep's clothing", just me and my opinion...

God Bless!

So does that mean a Christian can behave themself any way they want to and remain saved?

 

[HTacianas]

So are you saying there are Christians who do advocate murder, stealing, cheating, and worshiping idols by claiming no obligation to keep the commandments?

That's about the size of it, yes.

 

[ace of hearts]

So does that mean a Christian can behave themself any way they want to and remain saved?

How do you read the Gospels?

 

[Saint Steven]

So does that mean a Christian can behave themself any way they want to and remain saved?

Stop already.
Even the Apostle Paul had to address these ridiculous charges.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!

 

[ace of hearts]

Just so I understand you, are you claiming that the entirety of the law is abolished?

That's what I understand him to say. Upon reading the prophets and the Gospels, I don't understand how that would be a problem.

 

[Saint Steven]

Antinomianism teaches that since salvation is by grace alone and not works, and it is, there is no reason to obey any moral law - written or not. We should even go on sinning that grace may increase. People in the scriptures wrongly accused Paul of teaching that because of his strong stance on salvation by grace.

Paul faced the same false accusations you bring. No one is preaching immorality under grace.

Galatians 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

 

[mark kennedy]

So does that mean a Christian can behave themself any way they want to and remain saved?

As miserable as that existance must be, I believe there are some believers who are grossly carnal after conversion. Temporal sins mind you but I do think a person can find themselves trapoed in familar sins and still be redeemed on the last day. I believe it's as by fire, they barely escape perdition and they will face sever discipline in this life and there will be a horrible moment of realuzation of what they could have done.

 

[Saint Steven]

The story continues 5:4:

"You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace."

It is about being justified...

Yes, I've heard that one. "Who says we are justified by the law?"
The Apostle begins the chapter with this.

Galatians 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

 

[HTacianas]

That's what I understand him to say. Upon reading the prophets and the Gospels, I don't understand how that would be a problem.

Just so I'm sure that you understand the controversy, antinomianism describes the idea that the entirety of the law is abolished, meaning in effect, there is no such thing as sin.

 

[FireDragon76]

I do believe there are real differences between Christians about the role of the Law in salvation, that is obvious talking to Catholics, Orthodox, and some conservative Evangeilcals, all of whom believe there are some rules you can break that cause you to forfeit salvation. But I believe in practical terms, in terms of pastoral care, the differences are not as great as they first seem. But they are still nonetheless quite real, and should not be swept aside.

I for one believe that when God adopts someone as his own, he means what he says, that no one can snatch them away from him. Our relationship to God is like a loving parent, not a taskmaster. Life is not a test of our moral character, it is a gift.