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Antichrist one person?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by rynox, Mar 7, 2002.

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  1. Honeycomb

    Honeycomb Member

    103
    +0
    Protestant
    The antichrist is Satan disguised as Jesus, at His second advent.

    The "locust" army, is an army of imposter saints and angels from heaven.


    It is that simple :)






    Have a great day
    Peace & God bless :wave:
     
  2. RKF

    RKF Member

    408
    +0
    The antichrist is both, one man that is ahead of a nation or one world government!
     
  3. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Hi RKF.

    That statement is simply not taught anywhere in scripture. Antichrist has nothing at all to do with a world ruler. Everything the bible says about antichrist can be found here:

    2Jn 1:7
    1Jn 4:1-3
    1 Jn 2:18-19
    1 Jn 2:22-23

    That's everything. Study those passages hard and one will find nothing about world rulers or a single antichrist.
     
  4. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

    328
    +0
    GW

    You're still ducking my questions.
     
  5. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Why do you say that? I've now methodically and definitively answered the following:

    *Nero was the 666 of Revelation 13 and is the man-beast of Revelation and the 6th Caesar of Rev 17:10

    * I have explained the meaning of the mark as St. John intended it and has his original audience would have understood it.

    * I have shown that antichrist was a single first century Church heresy (1 Jn 2:18-19) that taught that Christ's incarnation was not a true manifestation in human flesh (2 Jn 1:7; 1Jn 4:2-3) and that one could have Jehovah without having Jesus (1Jn 2:22-23).

    * Finally I have shown that the event of 2 Thess 2 was an event already underway at the time Paul wrote the passage. Therefore it cannot be something in our future, but was something in Paul's day.


    Do you challenge any of these points? If so, I'd be happy to defend them, and especially 2 Thess 2 which listed only two signs that were left before the end. The rest had been fulfilled and tracked correctly by the Thessalonian congregation -- so correctly tracked that they concluded that the Day of Christ was already present in the 50s AD.
     
  6. And he cause all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: Revelation 13:16 Many have wondered over the years about Rev. 13:-17; 14:9-11. etc. regarding what is usually called "the mark of the beast." Sad to say most Christians are unfamiliar with the Old Testament. Therefore, when they approach the book of Revelation, they do so with a literalistic, 20th century "interpretations" instead of a first century Jewish understanding.

    Say I wrote a letter to you, apologizing for something I had done, like sending a post to you, that was for another person, and I said: "it was my bad" you would immediately understand what I meant. However 2000 years from now, a person reading my letter to you may not understand this usage of the term. He might assume that is was something very very (bad) that I had done. His assumption, of course, would be wrong, because he would be taking a figurative statement literally.

    The same is true today with most Christians when it comes to understanding John figurative language in Revelation.
    The first thing one must understand about Revelation is that it is a book composed almost entirely of symbols-symbols that a first century Jew would have found immediately recognizable. These symbols were used before in such books as Deuteronomy, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and Zechariah.

    When a "mark" is spoken of, it should bring to mind a previous reference to a mark, found in another place in the Old Testament. The "mark" received upon the right hand or the forehead, is a Jewish typological picture (as is virtually all of Revelation), not to a "physical" mark on a persons body, but to the fact that in Jewish thought form (which is where John was coming from).

    But how did one, receive "the mark" and what did it mean in Jewish thought? It means that those who "took the mark" willingly, on their "right hand" (the Jewish picture of action and power), did whatever they did under the control of Rome, and they acted in accordance with that ungodly religious system (Pantheism).

    The "mark" on the foreheads, was referring to the fact that Rome and their ideologies/ religions etc, were controlling the "minds and thoughts" of those who willingly followed this mind set. A perfect picture of this action in see in John. Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, Behold you King!" But they cried out, Away with Him, away with Him! Crucify Him!" Pilate said to them, Shall I crucify your King?" The chief priest answered, "We have no king (but Caesar!") John 19:14-15.

    This is the meaning of the "mark of the beast." Then many of the Jews who had come to Mary, and had seen the things Jesus did, believed in Him. But some of them went away to the Pharisees and told them the things Jesus did. Then the chief priest and the Pharisees gathered a council and said, What shall we do' For this Man works many signs. "If we let Him alone like this everyone will believe in Him, (And the Romans will come and take away both place and nation). Those who "took the mark" in the foreheads, were referring to the fact that Rome and their ideologies/ religions etc, were controlling the minds and thoughts of those who willingly followed this mind set. All the Jews understood this typological picture.

    Since John was a Jew he used numerous Jewish allusions out of the Old Testament in his book of Revelation. John writes in Greek, he thinks in Hebrew, and the thought has naturally affected the vehicle of express." The same language of John's Revelation when a "mark" is spoken of, should bring to mind a previous reference to a "mark" found in Ezekiel 9:3-6.

    In that context, Jerusalem was also about to be besieged and destroyed (by the Babylonians). The Lord commanded an angel to place "a mark on the foreheads" of those that lamented the wickedness of the city. This angel is described as having "a writer's inkhorn at his side" (9:3), with which he was to mark the righteous. It is clear from the context that this was not to be taken literally, as if an angel needed to carry a pen around with him and an inkhorn in which to dip it.

    This was a figurative (symbolic) way of showing that there was a specific class of people within the doomed city that were being set apart for preservation (9:6). In Revelation, a similar "mark" is placed on those whom God wishes to preserve (7:3, 14:1). A "mark" is also received by those loyal to the beast, one which sets them apart for destruction (14:9-11). The mark is an emblem of ownership (John 19:14-15.)

    We must allow Scripture to interpret itself whenever possible. Whether or not it or its fulfillment conforms to the unbiblical traditions we have been taught of what it should be like, is irrelevant! Most people today jump into the book of Revelation with the brazen assumption that it speaks of our times or a time yet future. This ignores the book's clear statements regarding the time of its fulfillment. To the readers of the first century, not the 20th, it was written that these were "things which must shortly come to pass" (Rev.11), and that the time for its fulfillment was "at hand" (Rev.1:3). And just in case they missed the point, it was reiterated at the end of the book that these were "things which must shortly be done" (Rev. 22:60.
     
  7. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

    328
    +0
    Questions 1 and 3 are still waiting to be answered.
     
  8. RKF

    RKF Member

    408
    +0
    Nero was not the ANTICHRIST he might have been a antichrist but the antichrist. And yes the bible does say in Dan, 7 that the beast represents the nations and their rulers. I do not believe that the prophecies have been fulfilled in nero. The mark of the beast has not happened yet! Revelations is for the people of the time of the end, US, not the apostles, concidering that it was written after most of them were dead. The Bible states that many antichrist will come. Are you a preterest?
    That would explain your views on the prophecy.
     
  9. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

    328
    +0
    Manifestation,

    Glad to see you figured out how to spell your name. That was a good paste up job you did in your previous post, so don't take this personally when I blow holes in the post, after all, you didn't write it.

    quote....Sad to say most Christians are unfamiliar with the Old Testament. Therefore, when they approach the book of Revelation, they do so with a literalistic, 20th century "interpretations" instead of a first century Jewish understanding.... endquote

    Overlooks the fact that premillennialism is NOT a twentieth century invention. The fact is that early believers were also studying John's writing and if they had any more insight into it than we do then they failed to record it. The early church fathers accepted the date of 96ad as the date the prophecy was recorded so the notion that it was fulfilled in the destruction of the temple which occured more than twenty years before the prophecy was given never entered their minds.

    quote...We must allow Scripture to interpret itself whenever possible. Whether or not it or its fulfillment conforms to the unbiblical traditions we have been taught of what it should be like, is irrelevant!... endquote

    This statement is nothing short of hypocritical coming from the preterists on this forum. On several other threads it has been shown that the preterists love to isolate verses from other verses and interpret those verses by themselves, independent of all other verses which give additional insight or provide additional information.

    quote...Most people today jump into the book of Revelation with the brazen assumption that it speaks of our times or a time yet future...endquote

    Probably because they accept Revelation to be the word of God and therefore true. If true then it must still be future since there is absolutely no evidence that all people have been resurrected, there is no more death etc. etc.

    quote...To the readers of the first century, not the 20th, it was written that these were "things which must shortly come to pass" (Rev.11), and that the time for its fulfillment was "at hand" (Rev.1:3). And just in case they missed the point, it was reiterated at the end of the book that these were "things which must shortly be done" (Rev. 22:60...endquote

    preterists always insist on looking at time from man's perspective. It is the only element which they see as literal, and by necessity everything else is symbolic. Their image of God is One who can tell time, but can't tell us much of anything else which we can understand.
     
  10. Me4him

    Me4him New Member

    31
    +0
    I haven't read all that been posted, but as God has only "ONE SON" so does Satan, the "Son of Predition".

    He is first described in Genesis, "thy seed", (Son of predition) and "Her seed", (Jesus) Note that neither has an "S" on the end, both are "Singular".


    As I am a "Son of God", but not the "Messiah", there are many "antichrist", but not the "Son of Predition".

    You'll find that the "Son of predition" "MIMICS" God in many areas in his attempt to fool people into believing he is God.

    Like Jesus, the antichrist has already been on earth, is not now, but will return again.

    Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:


    Even Jesus referred to him being alive when he returned.

    Joh 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

    To whom Jesus referred, is the "Antichrist".

    " Joh 17:12 that the scripture might be fulfilled.
     
  11. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Hi RKF:

    First, Nero certainly was NOT antichrist, nor was Hitler, or JFK, or King George or Osama.

    Antichrist was a first century Church heresy (1Jn 2:18-19) propagated by many deceivers/false prophets (2Jn 1:7; 1Jn 4:1) who taught explicitly that Christ's incarnation was not truly in human flesh (2Jn 1:7; 1Jn4:2-3) and that one could have Jehovah without having Jesus (1Jn 2:22-23). That's Antichrist as taught in the Holy Scriptures. It seems to me that you have an unbiblical view of antichrist that is based on the traditions of men.

    Every last thing the bible teaches about antichrist is listed right here:

    2 Jn 1:7
    1Jn 4:1-3
    1 Jn 2:18-19
    1 Jn 2:22-23

    We must not add to the scriptures nor tweak them to create concepts that are not taught there. There simply is no Mr. Antichrist World Ruler Dude.
     
  12. RKF

    RKF Member

    408
    +0
    DID you read the 7 chapter of DANIEL.
     
  13. RKF

    RKF Member

    408
    +0
    Are you a preterest?
     
  14. Wildfire

    Wildfire Member

    454
    +1
    there have been MANY antichrists including those leaders who were mentioned; slaughtering millions of people is an evil doing, it should not be downplayed because it was not the end.
    We are facing yet another vicious round of voilence and it is coming out of the middle east. <If> the antichrist, spoken of in the prophecy, is to come here and now, we had all better be down on our knees praying.

    Wildfire
     
  15. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Hi Wildfire, and God bless.

    Not a single one of those leaders mentioned were antichrists. Not a one. They simply don't pass the bible's definition of what antichrist means and is.

    Antichrist was a first century Church heresy (1Jn 2:18-19) propagated by many deceivers/false prophets (2Jn 1:7; 1Jn 4:1) who taught explicitly that Christ's incarnation was not truly in human flesh (2Jn 1:7; 1Jn4:2-3) and that one could have Jehovah without having Jesus (1Jn 2:22-23). That's Antichrist as taught in the Holy Scriptures. It has nothing to do with Hitler or anyone like him.

    Every last thing the bible teaches about antichrist is listed right here:

    2 Jn 1:7
    1Jn 4:1-3
    1 Jn 2:18-19
    1 Jn 2:22-23


    Reading those passages shows us there is no Mr. Evil World Ruler dude that is antichrist.
     
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  17. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

    328
    +0
    My apologies to you mani, for assuming you hadn't written the post. The post reflected an eloquence and lacked the grammatical errors that usually mark your posts. I do believe you've been holding back on us.:)

    It is impossible that premillennialism was a 19th century invention since all the biblical authors in the first century were looking forward to the coming of Christ at a future time.

    I've seen some quotes from early believers already, and in every instance they were making reference to the prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple as being fulfilled. If you have some quotes from early christians stating that Jesus had already returned then that might make some interesting reading, since all the ones I've read were still looking forward to the return of Christ, resurrection of the dead, etc.
     
  18. JohnK

    JohnK Newbie

    3
    +0
    Pagan
    The antichrist is anyone that is not saved. In the book of Revelations, it mentions:

    Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    In the original Greek, "the number of a man" should be translated as "the number of man." But anyway, the antichrist, which boasts the number 666 can be deciphered by "counting", or by using simple math using the following information from the book of Zechariah:

    8
    And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
    9
    And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

    So what it is saying is that those that will be "cut off and die", or "two thirds", are the unsaved, and "one third" will be refined, the "one third" are the saved of the world. Using simple math, the unsaved people, or "two thirds" can be calculated by 2/3, or two divided by three, which equals .666, we use all three numbers because it is standard mathematics to use numbers to the thousandths place, or extend three digits before the decimal. And tose that are saved 1/3 equals 3. Incidentally, the number 3 often refers to things that are holy, such as the trinity.
     
  19. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    666 is unquestionably Caesar Nero, the world ruler of St. John's Day who was leading a persecution against the Christians:

    Beast of Revelation -- IDENTIFIED!
    http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/gentry-ken_pp_02.html
     
  20. RKF

    RKF Member

    408
    +0
    I am sorry but you can't use worldly wisdom or man's wisdom to decifer the scriptures. Useing mathmatics isn't goning to work. The number of his name could mean almost anything, But I believe that it is literal like the rest of the scriptures. It's like the mark of the beast as Dan 7 says the beast represents a nation and it ruler. I believe that this mark will be some kind of implanted chip. It will be required to pledge alliegence to the beast at the time of implantation of the chip
    What else could cause man to stop buying and selling(not yet but soon) and also be used as a tracking device and many other implications. It's like decribing "Born again" what do you believe that this is?
     
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