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Antichrist one person?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by rynox, Mar 7, 2002.

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  1. rynox

    rynox New Member

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    I often hear the antichrist referred to as one person in particular, but in scripture it nearly always refers to antichrist as a spirit or just about anyone who teaches that Jesus Christ is not the Son of God.

    "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." 2Jo 1:7

    Revelations does refer to a beast:

    "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy." Rev 13:1

    And this beast would preceed the return of Jesus. This is most people's interpretation of the antichrist (no one would be able to buy or sell unless they had the mark of this beast upon their head), but is not referred to as the antichrist.

    Care for any discussion?

    rynĂ°x
     
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  2. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Below is a fool-proof, 4-question litmus test that you can use to "test for antichrists" from the safety and comforts of your own home. Try it -- it works!


    Instructions: Take any person you want and run them through St. John's biblical test below. A "yes" for all four questions gives a positive identification -- a single "no" disqualifies. Remember, it's the BIBLICAL test to discover antichrists.



    BIBLICAL LITMUS TEST TO DISCOVER "ANTICHRISTS"
    -- Four Questions--



    #1) Has the person departed from the apostles' flocks, defecting from the true Christian faith to join "many deceivers" after first appearing to be a member?

    "even now many antichrists have appeared ... THEY WENT OUT FROM US, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us they would have remained with us; but they went out" (1 Jn 2:18-19)

    "For many deceivers have GONE OUT INTO THE WORLD ... this is the deceiver and the antichrist" (2 Jn 1:7)

    "but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world ... this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world" ( 1 Jn 4:1, 3)




    #2) Does this ex-church member now embrace and promote the specific heresy that makes a confession that Christ did not come in the flesh?

    "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who don't confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist" (2 John 1:7)

    "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit who doesn't confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of whom you have heard that it comes. Now it is in the world already. " (1 Jn 4:2-3)




    #3) Does this ex-church member, among many others who now embrace and promote the heresy about Christ not having ever come in the flesh, also try to claim the Father without having the Son (thereby denying both, according to John's teaching: Jn 15:23; Jn 5:23; Jn 8:42)?

    "This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the son Whoever denies the Son DOES NOT HAVE THE FATHER; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also." (1 Jn 2:22-23)



    #4) Does this person have a vital connection to St. John, who cites his presence in his own day as a sign that the the last hour of the endtimes is come upon the world?

    "just as you heard that antichrist is coming, EVEN NOW MANY ANTICHRSTS HAVE APPEARED; FROM THIS WE KNOW IT IS THE LAST HOUR. They went out from us," (1 Jn 2:18-19)




    HOW'D YOU SCORE?

    Remember: A "yes" for all four questions gives a positive identification -- a single "no" disqualifies.
     
  3. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
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    Um, there have been many antichrists who wouldn't answer yes to a single one of these questions, but is against Christ none the less. Clarence Darrow would be a good example. He was completely and totally opposed to Christian faith, and taught many others to be against it, yet he wouldn't have been affirmed by any of the above questions.

    Sounds like you are saying that all antichrist have to be ex-catholics.
     
  4. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

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    rynox,

    Some folks get hung up on the term 'antichrist', look it up in their strong's concordance, and list the four verses in which it appears and dismiss the topic. Using the same criteria you could go to your strong's concordance, look up 'christ' and 'prove' there are no OT prophecies concerning Jesus. You could also look up the word bible and prove that the book doesn't exist... you get the point.

    The beast described in REV. is often called the antichrist because of his characteristics and the things he does. Just as Jesus had many titles/names in the bible so also does the Beast. Off the top of my head he is also known as 'the man of sin, little horn, beast, foolish shepherd', and probably others.
     
  5. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +21
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    And to Add to Willis' post..

    You quoted earleir in a verse "...an anti-christ"

    The Beast is often referred to as "The Anti-Christ" becaus ehe will be the endall, big-daddy of anti-christs.

    Like "gods" and "God". The term "The Anti-Christ" is a lable reserved for a particular individual, to differintiate him from those who are anti-christs.
     
  6. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    The "BEAST" is indeed both a man and a system.

    However, "antichrist" is not in any way related to this, but, rather, is a church heresy that manifested among the apostles' flocks in the 1st century. This heresy proved to St. John that the final hour of the last days had come upon him (1 John 2:18-19).

    "Antichrist" is a heresy. It is a heresy that affected Christians among the apostles' first century flocks, and was a sign of the final hour of the last days (1 John 2:18-19). The christians who were affected by this spirit "went out from" (i.e. "left") the apostolic congregations to chase the heresy and teach it to many others. These apostate Christians were called "many deceivers" in 2 John 1:7:

    "For MANY DECEIVERS are entered into the world who confess not that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 1:7)

    "As you have heard that antichrist would come, even now there are MANY ANTICHRISTS, by which we know it is the last hour. They WENT OUT FROM US, but they were not OF us..."(1 John 2:18-19).

    They had left the apostles flocks after being in them for some time. These apostate christians are mentioned again in 1 John 4:1-3, where St. John also calls those under the heresy of antichrist "MANY FALSE PROPHETS." Surely Matt 24:11,24 and Acts 20:29-30 were coming to pass in the mind of St. John as a sign of the impending end.

    IN SUM
    Antichrist is not a world-ruler secular leader dude that has power over the world, or even one single nation. Antichrist is a heresy, or a spirit of heresy that manifested among MANY Christians in the apostles' flocks in the 60s AD causing them to deny that one had to have Jesus to have the Father (1 John 2:22-24) and causing them to proclaim that Jesus never actually came in real human flesh (1 John 4:2-3; 2 John 1:7).

    It never ceases to amaze me how much mythology has been built up over 2000 years on this idea of a Mr. Antichrist world ruler dude. No such thing exists anywhere in the bible, yet so many Christians buy into it hook, line, and sinker -- thanks to Hal Lindsey, J. Hagee, LaHaye, and other so-called "prophecy experts."

    It is impossible that some future Rev 13 persona can qualify as part of the "antichrists." St. John's definition includes components that you have failed to measure against your proposed Rev 13 persona. In otherwords, you've only applied part one of the test and left the other 2-3 qualifiers out of the testing process.

    Pauls Man of Sin, Johns Beast & false prophet and "antichrists", Daniels AoD & Little Horn(s), are all unique individuals, Lumped together into "one world ruler dude" by the traditions of man alone.

    YBIC,
    P70
     
  7. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

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    The coming man of sin was one of the earliest prophecies given in the bible. He first appears in Gen 3:15 'And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.' The seed of woman is universally recognized as a prophecy of the coming messiah (Jesus), but who is this seed of the serpent? Since the seed of woman was one amazing man it is reasonable to expect that the seed of the serpent likewise will be one amazing man. We often see the Christ and Antichrist being contrasted in scripture. One such example is chapter 11 of Zechariah, in which messiah is clearly prophesied, as well as a 'foolish shepherd'. Jesus himself said that he came in the name of the father, but that one would come in his own name and would be accepted. Who was the man who would come in his own name?

    p70, your test is too exclusive and assumes things which are not written. John is describing the ac's of whom he was aware at the time of the writing. In no way does he claim that these are the ONLY ac's who ever were or ever would be. John gave only two tests, 'By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit who doesn't confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist" (1 Jn 4). The connection with John doesn't deserve emphasis since an apostate could as easily come from one of Paul's congregations, or Peter's, etc. John's purpose in establishing the link to himself was to emphasize that DESPITE the ac's possible claims to apostolic authority they were still teaching heresy. Therefore, by John's own words, anyone who does not confess that Jesus came in the flesh is antichrist.
     
  8. called

    called I am called. Rom. 8:30

    168
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    an antichrist is really anyone who claims to be christ but isn't the true Christ. the antichrist, the one in revelation, is one person. just my 2 cents.
     
  9. hopeee

    hopeee Member

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    What are the names of some of today's religions that preach Jesus is NOT the son of God? Hope
     
  10. Ronin

    Ronin Worst thread ever!

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    Well,

    According to Jerry Falwell, the antichrist is alive and well and walking the earth even now in the guise of a Jewish male. Well I am not antisemitic but I have $100 on it being Jerry Seinfeld. However, Vegas odds on William Shatner have improved dramatically in recent months. I have to check the line today to adjust my bet. Would consider a trifecta involving Seinfeld, Shatner, and Adam Sandler with Shatner to win, Seinfeld to place and Sandler to show. I am taking bets by the way...feel free to send me a message...they payout should be pretty good.
     
  11. XAN

    XAN New Member

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    The antichrist I believe are those who oppress the righteous, praticularly the jews. The egyptian pharohs, the babalonians, the assyrians, nazis, and christians. Yes christians. I being jewish and having been forced into Christian life style becuase my parents converted-- any way, many christians have persecuted jews; the cursades, the chatholic church, KKK, aryan nations, etc.

    "What are the names of some of today's religions that preach Jesus is NOT the son of God? Hope" Well hope, judaism is one of those religions. Belief in a 3 part god is idolatry, thus christians have perverted and twisted the bible and the true belief in G-d, thus christians are the "antichrist," or evil people who seeks to destroy G-d's chosen people.
     
  12. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
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    Hi Rynox.

    Very keen observation.

    The idea of a Mr. Antichrist world ruler dude is not from the bible, but from tradition. The bible's teaching on antichrist is very simple, and St. John lists the only passages anywhere in scripture on the matter. Everything the bible has to say about "antichrist" can be found as follows:

    2 Jn 1:7
    1 Jn 2:18-19
    1 Jn 4:1-3
    1 Jn 2:22-23

    Thats it.

    When we closely analyze St. John's comprehensive teaching on the matter we arrive at the following:

    (1) Antichrist is one heresy of many adherents (2 Jn 1:7; 1 Jn 2:18)

    (2) Antichrists were once members of the true apostolic Church, but left to embrace a very particular heresy (1 Jn 2:19; 1Jn 4:1)

    (3) The heresy embraced by antichrists denies that the incarnation of Christ was one in real human form or flesh (2 Jn 1:7; 1Jn 4:2-3)

    (4) The antichrist heretics proclaim one can have relations with Jehovah without needing Christ (1 Jn 2:22-23 - cf. Jn 15:23-24)

    (5) The prophesied antichrists manifested in St. John's latter ministry years, proving to him that the final hour of the last days had come upon Him and his flocks (1 Jn 2:18-19).


    There we have it. That's everything the bible teaches on antichrist. It is a solid, unified, and comprehensive teaching on the subject. The bible says nothing else on the matter.

    People err by adding in The Beast, Daniel's Imperial Kings, or the Man of Sin of 2 Thess 2, but these various men have not one thing at all to do with "antichrist," which was a 1st century Church heresy of the proto-gnostic beliefs concerning the incarnation.

    And of course, Revelation for sure says not a thing about "antichrist."
     
  13. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    There are more than one Anti-christs.

    There is a spirit of anti-christ, where anyone who is opposition to God has the spirit of anti-christ.

    But there is another anti-christ, as a person, and like Christ has many names or titles, so does the Anti-christ,Son of Sin, son of perdition, the beast or man of lawlessness. This individual will lead the Revived Roman Empire (EU), and confirm a covenant with Israel and her surrounding neighbors (Arabs). The Bible says when they say peace and safety, that sudden destruction will come on them like a trap.
     
  14. GW

    GW Veteran

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    Hi Willis Deal. There is no such thing as one antichrist person. Antichrist was a 1st century Church heresy of MANY deceivers.

    The only mentions anywhere in scripture pertaining to what antichrist is/was can be found here: 2 Jn 1:7; 1 Jn 2:18-19; 1Jn 4:1-3 and 1 Jn 2:22-23. That's everything. Taken together, these verses show that antichrist was a single 1st century Church heresy that involved the following essential tenants:

    #1 -- The denial that Christ came in true human flesh (2 Jn 1:7; 1Jn 4:2-3). The true Christians said his coming was incarnational and these false brothers claimed his coming was not in flesh.

    #2 -- The claim that one could have Jehovah without having Jesus (1 Jn 2:22-23; cf. also with John 15:23-24 and John 5:22-23).

    That's it. That's the entire biblical teaching on the subject.

    The test given earlier at this thread accurately represents the bible's teaching. To add in other non-biblical concepts is to make the bible teach what it does not teach. The antichrist cannot mean something other than what it meant to the original writers of the Bible, and we know exactly what it was from their inspired testimony.

    You did make a fine point that John's congregations were unified with James', Paul's (he actually did not have a congregation), and the other bishops. However, It is clear that these Christian heretics started among the true apostolic Church and went out to embrace this specific heresy.

    Blessings to you in Jesus,
    GW
     
  15. GW

    GW Veteran

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    Hi rollinTHUNDER.

    You've done a nice job of laying out the popular speculations of an "antichrist" as a world ruler dude. However, that is not a biblical teaching. Everything the bible teaches on antichrist is here: 2Jn1:7; 1 Jn 2:18-19; 1Jn 4:1-3; 1 Jn 2:22-23. That's all the bible has to say on this matter.

    One certainly can't stretch this comprehensive (yet concise) biblical teaching to include some Mr. World Ruler Guy. Antichrist is a very specific Church heresy that attacked the 1st century flocks in the 60s AD.
     
  16. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

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    GW,

    You've fallen into the trap which I listed earlier, that of looking up one term and assuming that only those verses which contain that word are relevant. I've already refuted that position by showing how it cannot work with other subjects so there is no reason to make it absolute authority on this subject.
     
  17. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

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    XAN,

    Unfortunately some of your post is correct. Many things have been done to the Jewish people in the name of Christianity. That doesn't mean that all christians persecute the jews, or that such persecution is supported or encouraged by the new testament. Things which have been done were done through ignorance, fear, or hatred which is inherent in all men, regardless of what term they apply to themselves. Lest we forget, jews also persecuted christians, so the jews are not totally innocent victims of the vicious christians. In fact, some might even consider that Christians were well justified in hating the jews, since in the early years it was the jews who killed (or were instrumental in killing) christians.

    Many christians have a warm spot in their hearts for the jewish people, and recognize that the jewish people are an integral part of God's plans, that He blesses those who bless Israel, and curses those who curse Israel. I don't think you can make a very good case for christians being evil and seeking to destroy Israel. If we did we'd have to stand in line behind the Muslims, and it would be a very long line.
     
  18. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Hi Willis. It is no trap to read the bible's teaching on the matter and not add to it based on man's traditions. Every last thing the scriptures say about antichrist can be found here:

    2 Jn 1:7
    1 Jn 4:1-3
    1 Jn 2:18-19
    1 Jn 2:22-23

    The bible's teaching is clear and concise as to what antichrist was. Antichrist was a 1st century Church heresy (1 Jn 2:18-19) of many false prophets who left the true Church to embrace and spread a specific heresy which stated:

    (1) Jesus Christ's ministry was not in true human form ("in the flesh"). [2 Jn 1:7; 1 Jn 4:2-3]

    (2) One can have covenant relations with Jehovah without having Jesus (the son) [1 Jn 2:22-23]


    This is precisely and comprehensively what the bible teaches on the topic of antichrist. We cannot help God out by trying to blend in the traditions of men on this topic to suit our fancy. There is no other mention of this topic anywhere else in scripture -- not in Daniel, not in Revelation, not anywhere.

    The concept of a future Mr. Antichrist World Ruler Dude is a myth spun from the false traditions of men.
     
  19. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

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    You take away from scripture when you ignore verses which contain further information on the matter. You are not adding to scripture when you consider additional scripture which provides further insight or builds upon ideas or events expressed elsewhere in the bible. Your insistance in continuing to stress the point when it has been thoroughly refuted causes me to question your motives and methods of eschatology.
     
  20. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Respectfully, Willis, this is EXACTLY the issue and dilemma: namely, that there is no further information on this topic in scripture. None at all. St. John gives us THE comprehensive, yet concise, picture of what antichrist was. The error people often make is that they don't KNOW St. John's teaching well enough to see that The Beast has nothing at all to do with St. John's antichrist early Church heresy.

    Neither do the kings of Daniel or the Man of Sin who overtakes the Temple have any relationship to St. John's antichrst teaching. They have nothing to do with each other.

    Again, The bible's teaching is clear and comprehensive as to what antichrist was when we simply read what it says. Antichrist was a 1st century Church heresy (1 Jn 2:18-19) of many false prophets who left the true Church to embrace and spread a specific heresy which stated:

    (1) Jesus Christ's ministry was not in true human form ("in the flesh"). [2 Jn 1:7; 1 Jn 4:2-3]

    (2) One can have covenant relations with Jehovah without having Jesus (the son) [1 Jn 2:22-23]


    That's everything the bible teaches on antichrist, and it is NOT to be added to just to suit man's traditions.
     
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