Antichrist comes out from the church

Timtofly

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In my opinion I think the antichrist will be an alien being claiming to be benevolent, claiming to lead mankind into peace. A being having greater technology and claiming that his existence proves that God is not real. He will claim religion is "primitive" and abolish all religion to get at Christianity. People will follow him because they will think he is above politics and race and can be unbiased in all things since he's not of the human race. People will worship him and he will usher in a new world order. He will have all kind of advanced medicine for healing all diseases. Christians who oppose him will be treated as enemies of progress and persecuted and that's where the mark will come in for people to show their solidarity with that alien being.
I can't see a regular human pulling off something like that. People will not follow a man so blindly but they will follow a supposed good alien that way.
Sounds like an image concocted by Satan that looks like a human.
 
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Timtofly

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Rather Jesus based his point on ALL trees Blooming.
Luke 21:29



Jesus told THEM what THEY should watch for and what THEY would see and hear:

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; [and ALL trees cf: Luke 21:29] When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


Was He lying to THEM about that?
No, the church has heard of many rumors of wars, seen wars, and been persecuted by all nations as Jesus said, not just two; Israel and the Romans.

That has been non-stop (no end) for the last 1992 years.
 
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parousia70

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No, the church has heard of many rumors of wars, seen wars, and been persecuted by all nations as Jesus said, not just two; Israel and the Romans.

That has been non-stop (no end) for the last 1992 years.
So for 1992 years the church “saw the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place” too? Or did Jesus lie to the apostles when he told them THEY would see it?
 
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DavidPT

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So for 1992 years the church “saw the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place” too? Or did Jesus lie to the apostles when he told them THEY would see it?


There was no AOD in the first century, because if there was someone should be able to tell us exactly what it was by now and that everyone would be in full agreement about it, the same way everyone is in full agreement about what happened in 70 AD, that the city and temple were destroyed. Those that insist the AOD already happened, one person will tell you it was meaning this, another person will tell you it was meaning that, so on and so on, thus making nonsense out of something that supposedly already happened which should no longer be a mystery as to what the AOD was if it already happened. Why do some of these things have to involve multiple choice answers then? Why can't there just be one answer that everyone agrees with if something allegedly already took place? Even among those that insist the AOD already took place, there is not full agreement as to what it involved.
 
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Timtofly

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So for 1992 years the church “saw the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place” too? Or did Jesus lie to the apostles when he told them THEY would see it?
Jesus did not say they would see it. Jesus was warning those who did see it. No one has seen it yet.
 
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Douggg

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There was no AOD in the first century, because if there was someone should be able to tell us exactly what it was by now and that everyone would be in full agreement about it, the same way everyone is in full agreement about what happened in 70 AD, that the city and temple were destroyed.
Exactly.
 
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parousia70

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Jesus did not say they would see it. Jesus was warning those who did see it. No one has seen it yet.

"When you (the apostles) see the abomination of desolation"

The passage is not "If you see the AoD", as you would need it to be for your interpretation to be correct, but WHEN you see it, and the YOU in matt 24 ALWAYS includes the apsotles as primary applicants of the message.

It NEVER EXCLUDES them, and you need it to, for you to be correct.
 
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Timtofly

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"When you (the apostles) see the abomination of desolation"

The passage is not "If you see the AoD", as you would need it to be for your interpretation to be correct, but WHEN you see it, and the YOU in matt 24 ALWAYS includes the apsotles as primary applicants of the message.

It NEVER EXCLUDES them, and you need it to, for you to be correct.
They did not see it, so did not need to flee.

They saw the armies 3 years earlier and did flee.

So don't flee when you see it. Stay right where you are.
 
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DavidPT

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"When you (the apostles) see the abomination of desolation"

The passage is not "If you see the AoD", as you would need it to be for your interpretation to be correct, but WHEN you see it, and the YOU in matt 24 ALWAYS includes the apsotles as primary applicants of the message.

It NEVER EXCLUDES them, and you need it to, for you to be correct.


Mark 13:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,


We know from this verse these 4 were present. That has to mean Jesus was at least meaning these 4 since He obviously was addressing them at the time according to this verse, that when they see the AOD, they are to flee.

Hmmm. When was it that some of you are insisting the AOD took place? 70 AD, wasn't it? When was it that James died? Around 44 AD, wasn't it? When was it that Andrew died? Around 60 AD, wasn't it? When was it that Peter died? Around 64 AD, wasn't it? Hmmmm. Something isn't quite adding up if all of the ones in verse 3 above Jesus was speaking to at the time, that they were to flee when they see the AOD.
 
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parousia70

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Hmmm. When was it that some of you are insisting the AOD took place? 70 AD, wasn't it?

66 AD.

When was it that James died? Around 44 AD, wasn't it? When was it that Andrew died? Around 60 AD, wasn't it? When was it that Peter died? Around 64 AD, wasn't it? Hmmmm. Something isn't quite adding up if all of the ones in verse 3 above Jesus was speaking to at the time, that they were to flee when they see the AOD.

"Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
 
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parousia70

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They saw the armies 3 years earlier and did flee.
Heeding and Fulfilling Jesus' words to flee when they saw it.

So don't flee when you see it. Stay right where you are.

Im in Oregon.
No need to flee Jerusalem. I'm already far enough away.
 
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DavidPT

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66 AD.



"Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

So, IOW, you have to admit that Jesus wasn't meaning those He was addressing at the time in the Discourse after all, because He certainly was addressing Peter, Andrew, and James, and in 66 AD none of them would have seen the AOD Jesus said they would see, assuming there was an AOD in 66 AD.

Preterists argue, that when Jesus used pronouns in the Discourse, such as ye, it is always meaning the ones He was addressing at the time, so why didn't Peter, Andrew, and James, who He was addressing at the time, see the AOD He said they would see? He never says in the Discourse that some of you I am saying this to, will not see the AOD. He said, when ye see the AOD, you are to flee. How can the ye not be including Peter, Andrew, and James, if you are arguing that that is who the pronouns are referring to, the ones Jesus is addressing at the time?
 
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Spiritual Jew

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There was no AOD in the first century, because if there was someone should be able to tell us exactly what it was by now and that everyone would be in full agreement about it, the same way everyone is in full agreement about what happened in 70 AD, that the city and temple were destroyed. Those that insist the AOD already happened, one person will tell you it was meaning this, another person will tell you it was meaning that, so on and so on, thus making nonsense out of something that supposedly already happened which should no longer be a mystery as to what the AOD was if it already happened. Why do some of these things have to involve multiple choice answers then? Why can't there just be one answer that everyone agrees with if something allegedly already took place? Even among those that insist the AOD already took place, there is not full agreement as to what it involved.
Since when does their need to be full agreement on something in order for it to be true? That's a silly argument.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Can you acknowledge that Jesus was talking about an event that would specifically affect Judaea here (let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains)? What does that have to do with a future event? Is His future coming not a global event rather than a local one?
 
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jgr

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There was no AOD in the first century, because if there was someone should be able to tell us exactly what it was by now

The someone was Luke.

He told us about 2,000 years ago.

Luke 21:20
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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Daniel's dream describes a little horn that arises from among the ten horns of the fourth terrible beast. The little horn power represents the Antichrist and is described in Daniel's dream with great detail so that we can clearly identify who this end-time enemy will be. Since we don't want to make any mistake, it is essential that we correctly identify this power.

Daniel 7 gives us very precise identifying features of the horn, and every single one must apply in order to make an accurate identification possible. The 13 features are as follows:

1. It arose out of the fourth beast.
2. It came up among the ten horns.
3. It came up after the ten horns had been established.
4. It was to uproot three horns.
5. It was to be greater than the others.
6. It was to be different than the others.
7. It was to have eyes like the eyes of a man and speak great words against God.
8. It was to make war on God's saints.
9. It would think to change times and laws.
10.The saints were to be handed over to it for a time and times and half a time.
11. It shall devour the whole earth.
12. It shall reign until the Ancient of Days comes.
13. Its dominion will be taken away.

The Antichrist power has to fulfill all of the characteristics given in the Bible. It cannot meet only some of them.

Identifying the Antichrist | Prophecy of Daniel | Religious and Political System

Right, the Papacy fulfills all of the criteria of Daniel's little horn or what early Protestantism came to know as the antichrist. I recommend Heidi Heiks' book "AD 538 Source Book" for the latest research on the three horns. I believe he is correct that it was the Vandals, Ostrogoths, and Visigoths that were the three horns that were plucked up by the roots.
 
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Skye1300

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Right, the Papacy fulfills all of the criteria of Daniel's little horn or what early Protestantism came to know as the antichrist. I recommend Heidi Heiks' book "AD 538 Source Book" for the latest research on the three horns. I believe he is correct that it was the Vandals, Ostrogoths, and Visigoths that were the three horns that were plucked up by the roots.

Where did you get that misinformation?
 
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Jerryhuerta

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Skye1300

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Did you know the effigy that you chose as your icon comes from the worship of Semiramis? True knowledge comes from the Spirit as he leads us to research. Again, I recommend Heidi Heiks' book "AD 538 Source Book."

That's just silly. My avatar is of Mary the mother of Jesus. :)
 
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Jerryhuerta

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That's just silly. My avatar is of Mary the mother of Jesus. :)

It's only silly to those who close their minds to how paganism entered Christianity through the Roman Church, the history of the Church. Reading the link on mother worship in paganism exposes the worship of Mary as idolatry.

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Exodua 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
 
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