Antichrist/Beast/Man of Sin/Little Horn Separate and distinct or the Same?

[parousia70]

Since this topic has come up often in various threads, it seemed to deserve it's own.

For all of you who believe the Biblical "antichrist", the Biblical "man of Sin" and the Biblical "Beast" are one and the same individual, please provide as concise a scriptural analysis as you can to demonstrate this connection.

For those who hold that they are synonymous, I suggest that the best way to prove your case is to find parallel passages that speak of each character performing the same function or speaking of each character as synonymous participants in the same capacity at the same event.

Connect all 3 or connect any 2, but demonstrate this connection with scripture.

Any reply that consists of "Well, it's commonly known that the beast is the antichrist", or "People have always called the man of sin "antichrist", or "Everybody knows that the beast and the man of sin are the same person", or "wikipedia says they are the same"...will be summarily dismissed as invalid.

Please post the "Scriptural connection" not the "man made traditional" one.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

The writings of the early Church fathers would help with this question.

 

[victorinus]

you can't identify the little horn without first identifying the ten horns of the fourth beast of daniel and the second beast of the apocalypse

 

[LastSeven]

Subscribing...

 

[2X4]

Since this topic has come up often in various threads, it seemed to deserve it's own.

For all of you who believe the Biblical "antichrist", the Biblical "man of Sin" and the Biblical "Beast" are one and the same individual, please provide as concise a scriptural analysis as you can to demonstrate this connection.

For those who hold that they are synonymous, I suggest that the best way to prove your case is to find parallel passages that speak of each character performing the same function or speaking of each character as synonymous participants in the same capacity at the same event.

Connect all 3 or connect any 2, but demonstrate this connection with scripture.

Any reply that consists of "Well, it's commonly known that the beast is the antichrist", or "People have always called the man of sin "antichrist", or "Everybody knows that the beast and the man of sin are the same person", or "wikipedia says they are the same"...will be summarily dismissed as invalid.

Please post the "Scriptural connection" not the "man made traditional" one.

Here's what the real story is about the Beast and the Antichrist; What is the Beast and the Antichrist?

 

[2X4]

The writings of the early Church fathers would help with this question.

Here's the real story the early servants of God learned as they testified to the knowledge of Christ and learned all about the Beast. Without knowing what the Beast is and why it was used, it would be impossible to learn who we are and how we're created. What is the Beast and the Antichrist?

 

[LastSeven]

Here's what the real story is about the Beast and the Antichrist; What is the Beast and the Antichrist?

Rather than having us read that entire thing, can you summarize?

 

[ebedmelech]

John makes it very clear who antichrist is in 1 John 4:1-3 and 2 John 1:7-11.

Antichrist can be a person, or an institution, or both!

For instance Jehovah Witnesses as well as Mormons are antichrist because they deny exactly what John is saying.

Equally we know from Daniel that "beasts" are nations.

 

[LastSeven]

John makes it very clear who antichrist is in 1 John 4:1-3 and 2 John 1:7-11.

Antichrist can be a person, or an institution, or both!

For instance Jehovah Witnesses as well as Mormons are antichrist because they deny exactly what John is saying.

Equally we know from Daniel that "beasts" are nations.

JWs and Mormons don't believe that Jesus Christ is of God?

 

[Douggg]

JWs and Mormons don't believe that Jesus Christ is of God?

JW's believe that Jesus is Michael the angel.

 

[Douggg]

Since this topic has come up often in various threads, it seemed to deserve it's own.

For all of you who believe the Biblical "antichrist", the Biblical "man of Sin" and the Biblical "Beast" are one and the same individual, please provide as concise a scriptural analysis as you can to demonstrate this connection.

It is the same person because of the time frames and characteristics in the end times bible passages are consistent as the person progresses between the different roles found in the different passages.

1. the prince who shall come confirms the covenant for seven years. Daniel 9:26-27.

2. the leader(s) of Israel are responsible to confirm the covenant per Deuteronomy 31:9-13 for seven years.

3. the human leader of Israel is the man-King of Israel, 1Samuel10:19

the prince who shall come is anointed the King of Israel, and is given a crown, the rider on the white horse, Revelation 6:2, Jesus the true King of Israel riding a white horse in Revelation 19:11

4. in the middle of the seven years, the person violates the covenant. Daniel 9:27, stopping the daily sacrifice.

5. the little horn in Daniel 8 violates the covenant by committing the transgression desolation. Daniel 8:12-13. stopping the daily sacrifice.

6. the revealed man of sin in sits in the temple of God claiming to be God - the transgression of desolation. 2Thessalonians2:4

7. the little horn in Daniel 8:25 magnifies himself in his heart

8. the prince of Tyre (code name for the person) magnifies himself in his heart, Ezekiel 28:6, sits in the seat of God, Ezekiel 28:2, claiming to be God. God has him killed. Brings him, the terrible of the nations, down to the pit, Ezekiel 28:7, Isaiah 14:16. The little horn person is killed, for the transgression of desolation act. The head on the beast in Revelation 13:3 is mortally wounded.

9. once in hell, and taunted, the person is cast out of the grave, Isaiah 14:19-20 because he destroys his people and his land, likened as the abominable branch - Jesus the righteous branch, the person is a Jew and the Antichrist gone bad. God, in disdain for the person, kicks the person out of the grave bringing him back to life. The recovered head on the beast in Revelation 13:3. He rules the world for 42 months, the second half of the seven years. Revelation 13:5

10. satan is cast down to earth with a time, times, half times left. Revelation 12:14.

11. satan gives his power to the beast, Revelation 13:2

12. the little horn persecutes the saints for a time, times, half times Daniel 7:25 - possessed by the unclean spirit ascending out of the bottomless pit - as the eighth king of the fourth kingdom.

13. until God passes judgement on the possessed little horn person in Daniel 7:26-28 and Revelation 19:20

 

[ebedmelech]

JWs and Mormons don't believe that Jesus Christ is of God?

They don't believe Christ is God. Mormons believe Christ is the spirit brother of Lucifer. Neither believe the Trinity.

 

[LastSeven]

JW's believe that Jesus is Michael the angel.

They don't believe Christ is God. Mormons believe Christ is the spirit brother of Lucifer. Neither believe the Trinity.

I guess it depends on what is meant by "of God" in John 1. Are angels not "of God"?

 

[Douggg]

I guess it depends on what is meant by "of God" in John 1. Are angels not "of God"?

JW's are also against the belief in the trinity.

 

[ebedmelech]

I guess it depends on what is meant by "of God" in John 1. Are angels not "of God"?

Help me out here. Do you mean "John 1" or "1 John"?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

…that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Two things to note in this passage concerning the man of sin, the son of perdition... he exalteth himself (speaks great things) above God and claims to be God.

In this next verse we see that to claim to be God is blasphemy..

John 10:36

Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Now we will look at the little horn of Daniel to see if he has similar attributes...

Daniel 7:8
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

We know in the context of Daniel 8 that this little horn comes up after the 4th beast, Rome... the terrible beast with iron teeth that breaketh. Indeed, even Gibbons calls the Roman empire the iron kingdom.
So even though this power is spoken of in Daniel, it is placed in the same time frame as the beast of Revelation and the man of sin... future from the time of the Bible writers.

Here's more identifiers of the little horn...

Daniel 7:20-25

And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.


24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Of note in this passage of scripture... we see that this little horn power is the same as the son of perdition, the man of sin as he also opposes God and His people. It also identifies it as being in power after the 4th beast on the earth, which we know is the Roman empire.

Lets now move on to the Beast of Revelation to see if we can see similar attributes...

Revelation 13

13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

As we see here, the portions in bold are almost word for word descriptions of of the little horn power of Daniel, the man of sin, son of perdition.

Also, the antichrist spoken of in the epistles of John identifies this power as one who is against God, who denies God by claiming to be God... it is the same entity as the others shown here.



My apologies for the somewhat disjointed study as I am putting it together on the fly.... if you have any questions or need clarification, please ask.

 

[Douggg]

Two things to note in this passage concerning the man of sin, the son of perdition... he exalteth himself (speaks great things) above God and claims to be God.

In this next verse we see that to claim to be God is blasphemy..



Now we will look at the little horn of Daniel to see if he has similar attributes...



We know in the context of Daniel 8 that this little horn comes up after the 4th beast, Rome... the terrible beast with iron teeth that breaketh. Indeed, even Gibbons calls the Roman empire the iron kingdom.
So even though this power is spoken of in Daniel, it is placed in the same time frame as the beast of Revelation and the man of sin... future from the time of the Bible writers.

Here's more identifiers of the little horn...



Of note in this passage of scripture... we see that this little horn power is the same as the son of perdition, the man of sin as he also opposes God and His people. It also identifies it as being in power after the 4th beast on the earth, which we know is the Roman empire.

Lets now move on to the Beast of Revelation to see if we can see similar attributes...



As we see here, the portions in bold are almost word for word descriptions of of the little horn power of Daniel, the man of sin, son of perdition.

Also, the antichrist spoken of in the epistles of John identifies this power as one who is against God, who denies God by claiming to be God... it is the same entity as the others shown here.



My apologies for the somewhat disjointed study as I am putting it together on the fly.... if you have any questions or need clarification, please ask.

Hi ECR, the thing that undermines the SDA view, although parts are correct, is that when all is said and done - SDA's must change the timeframes from days and months (i.e. the 1260 days, and 42 months) to years to make their view work.

SDA take the end times bible passages, extracts the "identifiers", come up with the pope/papacy being the Antichrist/beast/false prophet - then, goes back and fits the timesframes to the theory, instead of the theory fitting the timeframes, - and re-translates the days and months in the text, as being years.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Hi ECR, the thing that undermines the SDA view, although parts are correct, is that when all is said and done - SDA's must change the timeframes from days and months (i.e. the 1260 days, and 42 months) to years to make their view work.

SDA take the end times bible passages, extracts the "identifiers", come up with the pope/papacy being the Antichrist/beast/false prophet - then, goes back and fits the timesframes to the theory, instead of the theory fitting the timeframes, - and re-translates the days and months in the text, as being years.

Notice that I didn't draw any conclusions for the audience of who these entities are... I was merely showing from scripture that the man of sin is the son of perdition is the little horn is the beast of Revelation. You identified who you supposed I was referring to... I was simply answering the OP's query.

 

[Douggg]

Notice that I didn't draw any conclusions for the audience of who these entities are... I was merely showing from scripture that the man of sin is the son of perdition is the little horn is the beast of Revelation. You identified who you supposed I was referring to... I was simply answering the OP's query.

Yes, I realize that you hadn't gone as far as I indicated. I just saw that you were SDA in your profile and that you mentioned the "identifiers" term, which I have watched a few SDA videos on You Tube, of the speaker (Mark Woodman) using that same terminology in building his case.

 

[Brian45]

Since this topic has come up often in various threads, it seemed to deserve it's own.

For all of you who believe the Biblical "antichrist", the Biblical "man of Sin" and the Biblical "Beast" are one and the same individual, please provide as concise a scriptural analysis as you can to demonstrate this connection.

For those who hold that they are synonymous, I suggest that the best way to prove your case is to find parallel passages that speak of each character performing the same function or speaking of each character as synonymous participants in the same capacity at the same event.

Connect all 3 or connect any 2, but demonstrate this connection with scripture.

Any reply that consists of "Well, it's commonly known that the beast is the antichrist", or "People have always called the man of sin "antichrist", or "Everybody knows that the beast and the man of sin are the same person", or "wikipedia says they are the same"...will be summarily dismissed as invalid.

Please post the "Scriptural connection" not the "man made traditional" one.

I think the fact that when Jesus said "this generation" and the apostles went on to believe him as their writings show , then I think we are always going to have problems in understanding any futuristic prophecies. Meaning that if for example Daniels prophecies were in mind then the apostles would have placed it into their generation at that time.
And the book of revelation where John is told that some things are past present and future (from his perspective and time) are made up by modern day Christians to make it fit their beliefs whether they be preterists or futurists .