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ANSWER to sunisup article

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Andy centek, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. Andy centek

    Andy centek Seeker of Deep Truth Supporter

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    • THE END OF THE WORLD
    Answer to the post of Thesunisup:

    I will make the following statements pertaining to his post. I chose this posting because it is so typical of the false teachings of today. Also I had an email from Thesunisout pertaining to this subject. I am not singling out Sunisout.

    First is stated: The bible teaches us that there will be seven year period preceding the end of the world. This period is call,the tribulation.

    My first comment is this: The Bible does not teach us anything! The Holy Spirit teaches those whom it has been given to how to understand what is written in the Bible. Second, the Bible is not an original writing, it is a copy of other writings. It is agreed upon that the disciples did not write all that is in today's Bible; other unknown writers wrote it's parts. Then too, Rome decided what was to be put into today's Bible. Then King James had His version made up.

    There are many other writings that discuss the issues in the Bible text that are not normally considered worthy to be in the Bible; they are the Gnostic writings. This one says that many of those writings are very worth wild reading with care. Then too, look at all the various translations that are out there. So which one is best? I leave that to the reader to decide.

    The Sunisout then states that there will be a seven year preceding the tribulation period. It is said that this learned from the book of Daniel 9 and Revelation 13 and many other places; whatever they are I do not know. It is said that the Antichrist will come to dominate the Earth. Earth in this form is the planet Earth. There is the word earth, which may be a land area of the Earth. This needs to be taken into account when studying the scriptures.

    I will begin this long discussion with the book of Daniel reference which was made to. No particular verse or verses were given however, just chapter 9. So let us look at Daniel 9.

    Daniel's Prayer for His People

    Dan 9:1-2 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans; In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

    Here we are told that this seventy years is for Jerusalem, not for the world.

    Dan 9:3-7 And I set My face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made My confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: Neither have we hearkened unto Your servants the prophets, which spake in Your name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.

    O Lord, righteousness belongs unto You, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither You have driven Them, because of their trespass that They have trespassed against You.

    Dan 9:8-10 O Lord, to us belongs confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against You. To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets.

    Dan 9:11- 12 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey Your voice; therefore the curse is poured upon Us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because We have sinned against Him. And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against Us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.

    Dan 9:13-14 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.Therefore has the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all His works which He does: for We obeyed not His voice.

    Dan 9:15 -16 And now, O Lord our God, that has brought Your people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and has gotten You renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we ave done wickedly. O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I beseech You, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are become a reproach to all that are about us.

    Dan 9:17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and His supplications, and cause Your face to shine upon Your sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.

    Dan 9:18 O my God, incline Your ear, and hear; open Your eyes, and behold Our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name: for we do not present our supplications before You for our righteousness, but for Your great mercies. O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.

    Gabriel Brings an Answer

    Dan 9:20-22 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing My sin and the sin of My people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;Yes, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched Me about the time of the evening oblation. And He informed Me, and talked with Me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give You skill and understanding.

    All that has been told here so far is centered on Jerusalem,and the LORD's people; because of Their sinfulness. It is not about the Gentiles who at that time did not have the LORD. The word LORD here has the meaning of: The Ruler. This is where the knowledge of what the various name used for God is also important.

    Dan 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

    The Seventy Weeks

    Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined

    1- Upon Your people

    2- And upon Your holy city

    1-To finish the transgression

    2- And to make an end of sins

    3- And to make reconciliation for iniquity

    4- And to bring in everlasting righteousness

    5- And to seal up the vision and prophecy

    6- And to anoint the most Holy


    Here are six things given. Six is the number pertaining to man. Man was created on the sixth day. The Lord was crucified on the sixth day. He was resurrected on the third day, the Day of resurrection as is also in Genesis.

    Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    Dan 9:26-27 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (Roman Army)

    And He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (seven years): and in the midst of the week (3 ½ years) He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations He shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Mat 24:1-2 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See You not all these things? Truly I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

    Signs of the End of the Age

    Mat 24:3- 6 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us,

    1- when shall these things be

    2- and what
    shall be the sign of Your coming

    3- and of the end of the world (Judeah)?

    And Jesus answered and said unto Them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    And You shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that You be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

    Mat 24:7- 9 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.

    Then shall they deliver You up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and You shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake (For following after Him).

    Mat 24:10-13 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    NOTE: The gospel of the kingdom of God was to be preached before the end came; and it was!

    Mar_1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent You, and believe the gospel.

    NOTE: The gospel of the kingdom of God began to be preached after John the Baptist was killed. At that time Jesus went forth proclaiming it.


    1. Mark_1:14-15 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent You, and believe the gospel.
    John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is finished: and He bowed His head, and gave up The Spirit.

    John 17:14-16 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep Them from the evil.

    The Abomination of Desolation


    Mat 24:15- 24 When You therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso reads, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    Mat 24:25- 28 Behold, I have told you before. Therefore if they shall say unto You, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning comes out of the east, and shines even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

    The Coming of the Son of Man

    Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


    Rev_8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

    The Lesson of the Fig Tree

    Mat 24:32-33 Now learn a parable of the fig tree (Israel) ; When His branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near: So likewise You, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

    Mat 24:34-35 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.

    No One Knows That Day and Hour

    Mat 24:36- 39 But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for You know not what hour your Lord does come.

    NOTE: It should be very clear from these scriptures given that these events occurred in the time of Jesus disciples and not in this age some 2,000 years or more later. Men seem to love fancies.

    Now one may ask: What about 1 Thes4:17?


    The Coming of the Lord

    1Th 4:13-15 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep (in the grave), that You sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

    NOTE:
    Notice that Paul included Himself in this resurrection which is has been changed to rapture in this day and age. So Paul expected to be there when it occurred!

    Th 4:16-18 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    So who is correct, Paul or the teachers of today who preach this false Rapture idea? Obviously Paul was correct and those with itching ears are in great error.

    I think this need not be continued any longer, for the answer is given here for those with ears to hear and eyes to see.

    Then sunisupt says that he is not excited about tribulation but I know my Lord is able to protect me and get me through it. Why go through this false tribulation? Each and every day is a tribulation for the believer in God and His Christ Jesus. Muscles are built by hrad work!So is belief with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

    Now a jump is made to the great tribulation which is to fall upon the church. The church is the body of Christ, and it is Christ that tends to it, not us. As far as the harvest of the church which is mention in that Blog. The church is being harvested each and every day.

    Now as for the post tribulation rapture; are their two so called raptures? A post tribulation and a tribulation rapture? Sunisout says that hard evidence rules out pre-trib rapture. I don't know what hard evidence is that is talked of. Then is stayed: it can't happen until the middle of the tribulation due to Math 24:29-31. That is what Jesus was telling His disciples, not world for evermore.

    Then is stated that Paul is talking of the coming of the Lord and our gathering unto Him. It was seen that Paul was talking to those of his time, not this day and age. Then it is stated: In verse 3 he is trying to warn US or the deception. Paul said that He was talking to those people of his time, not us today.Then the statement made is: Deception brings confusion. It certainly does!

    Next is read: But he who reads this passage of Dan 12, even half aseep can not fail to see that the kingdom of Antichrist shall fiercely, though for a short time, assail the Church before the eternal reign of the last judgment of God shall introduce the eternal reign of the saints; that are called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing Himself that He is God. ???

    Paul says here that the rapture can't happen until “the falling away comes first” and the man of sin is revealed.” May be the rest of the verses should have been read!

    The the good old misused Mth 24 is injected; which has been taken out of context.

    I will skip much more that was stated, for it is out of context. Joel 2:31 is used and Mal 4:1. These both use figures of speech and are not the literal sun and moon. See Gen 37.I will not pursue this any further here.

    Those who truly seek the truth of the scriptures will understand what has been said here and My comments on them.

    Andy Centek
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  3. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  5. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  6. Andy centek

    Andy centek Seeker of Deep Truth Supporter

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  7. Andy centek

    Andy centek Seeker of Deep Truth Supporter

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  8. Andy centek

    Andy centek Seeker of Deep Truth Supporter

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    vinesight4u:

    The article, the, can be present tense or future tense depending on what it is pointing to.
    Also, one must consider if figures of speech are being used or not. If figures of speech are being used,then it changes the whole meaning.
    I feel I have spoken it clearly enough.
    Andy Centek
     
  9. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  10. Andy centek

    Andy centek Seeker of Deep Truth Supporter

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  11. Andy centek

    Andy centek Seeker of Deep Truth Supporter

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    vinesight4u

    In response to your email I give the following:

    Vinesight4u:

    You state when John uses the definite article that the subject is already known to his readers. What id a reader does not even know what the definite article means?

    Then you say; such as -saw the sun. What if I make these two statements.

    1- The sun in a source of spiritual light

    2- His face is as the Sun

    Which sun means what? Consider Joseph's dreams.

    Gen_37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

    What sun is this ? Or are these figures of speech? How would one know which is correct when reading these verses?

    Then you state: Why did John use the definite articled here? Why, because He is referencing these particular angels. Then you say: Step back to Rev 7 and find where John heard the numbers being told (given) as to the numbers being sealed. You ask: Who did the sealing?

    It says; we sealed Them. So I ask you: Who is the we? Also; who was sealed?

    I am sorry, but I do not get your point. I ask you this however. What about the seven spirit of God?

    Andy Centek


     
  12. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  14. mnorian

    mnorian Oldbie--Eternal Optimist Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    upload_2018-2-14_6-32-51.jpeg
    Thread has been moved from
    Deeper Fellowship
    to
    Eschatology-Endtimes & Prophecy Forum.
    For a better fit.
    Carry on.
     
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