Another take on the Rapture

[Copperhead]

Oh, its Scott Clarke with another false interpretation. Why do we need to listen to man who has sworn about the September 21 2017 rapture?

I have heard some accuse Clarke of saying the rapture would occur on September 2017, but I never heard Him say that specifically. I even listened to a presentation he gave at a prophecy conference I believe was held in Montana right around the solar eclipse time prior to that date. I never once heard him say that the date was categorically the rapture. Now, he has said that the sign in Revelation 12 is a allusion to the rapture. But that is a far cry from setting a actual date.

The guy took a lot of heat for what he put out, and it also brought out those who like to defame folks by making false accusations.

 

[Copperhead]

Israel was a product of years of political intrigue, duplicity, and deception; coupled with savage guerrilla terrorism and warfare. It could not be more disqualified as prophetic fulfillment.

The Church was born on and in one day -- the Day of Pentecost. It was the precise and perfect fulfillment of Isaiah 66:8.

Who really cares how it came about. It was indeed a fulfillment of OT prophecy right down to at least the year and time of the year.

And no, the context of Isaiah 66:8 which follows Isaiah 66:7 which is the removal of the righteous. It correlates with Revelation 12:5. The context is the GT period. Peter said the Ekklesia is a holy nation. The child in Revelation 12 is caught up (Harpazo = Rapture) as soon as it is born. Yeshua was never caught up as soon as He was born, but His body, the Ekklesia which was conceived at Shavuot 32AD (Pentecost) will be brought forth and be caught up to God and His throne. Micah 5:3, Jeremiah 30:6-7, etc support this view. C. H. Spurgeon and many other scholars also support this view.

The Church was not born at Pentecost, it was conceived by the Holy Spirit. It has been growing ever since and is about to be brought forth from the womb and caught up to God and His throne. The parable of the pearl amplifies this. A pearl is created in an oyster. It starts as an irritation to the oyster. It grows by accretion. After it has developed, it is removed form the oyster and set apart as an item of adornment. A perfect picture of the Church. And an oyster is not kosher. Yet again showing how the Church will be predominately made up of Gentiles. I dearly love the allusions the Lord gave us in scripture.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The guy took a lot of heat for what he put out, and it also brought out those who like to defame folks by making false accusations.

You are wasting time with that guy. That is the Gospel Truth!

 

[jgr]

The Church was not born at Pentecost, it was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

That which is conceived does not for some time see the light of day.
That which is born does.
The Church saw the light of day (Acts 2:41,47).

 

[Copperhead]

You are wasting time with that guy. That is the Gospel Truth!

I am not wasting time on anyone. I heard what he put forth is all. I never said that I was some sort of disciple of his. Take a chill pill.

 

[Copperhead]

That which is conceived does not for some time see the light of day.
That which is born does.
The Church saw the light of day (Acts 2:41,47).

Wow. If that isn't an allegorical interpretation of those verses and applying them to this discussion, then nothing is.

 

[jgr]

Wow. If that isn't an allegorical interpretation of those verses and applying them to this discussion, then nothing is.

There's nothing more literal than seeing the light of day.

 

[jgr]

The descendants of Abraham couldn't abrogate that covenant if they wanted to.

The Abrahamic covenant is fulfilled in Christ, and in those who are in Christ. (Galatians 3:16,28,29)
It is therefore only applicable to the believing remnant of the descendants of Abraham who have put their faith in Christ.

 

[jgr]

Folks confuse the physical promises with the spiritual ones.

The only confusion lies with those who refuse to recognize Christ as the sole and exclusive Fulfillment and Heir of all of God's promises and bequests. (2 Corinthians 1:20, Hebrews 1:1,2)

 

[BABerean2]

The Hebrew people will be restored to the land in full in accordance to the Abrahamic Covenant, which was an unconditional covenant sworn to by God alone with a blood oath. The descendants of Abraham couldn't abrogate that covenant if they wanted to.

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.


What does Paul say below about the promise made to Abraham?


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You are replacing the one seed, with the many seeds.

What you are claiming is some form of Dual Covenant Theology, which only works by ignoring the words of Paul found above.

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[Choose Wisely]

Nothing there remotely resembling your claim.

Quote it directly.

"The reason is self-evident. Israel's removal as the anointed recipient is the equivalent of the removal of dispensationalism's chief cornerstone, and the consequent and unavoidable collapse of the edifice which it supports. The result is effectively dispensational detonation, and the disappearance of a pervasive, not to mention lucrative, presence and influence within the Church."
The preponderance of a suggestive theme emancipates an underlying transition that forces a concurrent overlying conclusion.

 

[jgr]

"The reason is self-evident. Israel's removal as the anointed recipient is the equivalent of the removal of dispensationalism's chief cornerstone, and the consequent and unavoidable collapse of the edifice which it supports. The result is effectively dispensational detonation, and the disappearance of a pervasive, not to mention lucrative, presence and influence within the Church."
The preponderance of a suggestive theme emancipates an underlying transition that forces a concurrent overlying conclusion.

No reference to Jesus. No reference to God. Therefore, no suggestion that Jesus is not God.

Confirmed. Nothing there in any way resembling your claim.

 

[Choose Wisely]

No reference to Jesus. No reference to God. Therefore, no suggestion that Jesus is not God.

Confirmed. Nothing there in any way resembling your claim.

No reference to Jesus. No reference to God. Therefore, no suggestion that Jesus is not God.

Confirmed. Nothing there in any way resembling your claim.

How can you conclude that? Are you saying that God is not everywhere?

Isaiah 6
And one called out to another and said, "Holy, Holy, Holy, is the LORD of hosts, The whole earth is full of His glory."

 

[Choose Wisely]

No reference to Jesus. No reference to God. Therefore, no suggestion that Jesus is not God.

Confirmed. Nothing there in any way resembling your claim.

I just wanted you to experience what we experience when you replacement theology pushers are responding to our comments.

There is no truth or desire for truth. Incorrect conclusions are drawn and then words are merely put in our mouths. Then you post scripture after scripture to prove a point is wrong, when the point was never said in the first place. This must be something that is taught by your leaders.

 

[jgr]

I just wanted you to experience what we experience when you replacement theology pushers are responding to our comments.

There is no truth or desire for truth. Incorrect conclusions are drawn and then words are merely put in our mouths. Then you post scripture after scripture to prove a point is wrong, when the point was never said in the first place. This must be something that is taught by your leaders.

Provide an example using Hebrews 1:1,2. Would you agree that those verses are truth?

 

[BABerean2]

I just wanted you to experience what we experience when you replacement theology pushers are responding to our comments.

Is doling out punishment to those who disagree with you a part of your doctrine?

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[Choose Wisely]

Is doling out punishment to those who disagree with you a part of your doctrine?

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So are you saying that you dole out punishment? I only let you see what it's like on the other side of the fence. For example, you constantly claim that I and others believe in dual covenants for salvation when I have told you many times that I don't. It's all a matter of Gods timing. Instead of you acknowledging this, you put words in my mouth and claim things that I don't believe. Then you cut and paste a bunch of scriptures that have nothing to do with the facts or the truth. As I've told you before, you are not interested in truth, only a failed doctrine that is proven wrong.

 

[BABerean2]

So are you saying that you dole out punishment? I only let you see what it's like on the other side of the fence. For example, you constantly claim that I and others believe in dual covenants for salvation when I have told you many times that I don't. It's all a matter of Gods timing. Instead of you acknowledging this, you put words in my mouth and claim things that I don't believe. Then you cut and paste a bunch of scriptures that have nothing to do with the facts or the truth. As I've told you before, you are not interested in truth, only a failed doctrine that is proven wrong.

Former Dispensationalist Jerry Johnson

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[Choose Wisely]

Former Dispensationalist Jerry Johnson

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Just another example of words being falsely crammed in peoples mouths.

I really could care less where people think these beliefs came from as they have been proven wrong. I really only care what the Bible says as I didn't pick up my beliefs from Darby or anyone else. I simply read what the word says. No where can I find where the Bible says the Church is Israel. You have to make something up to arrive at that conclusion. The belief came about because there was no nation of Israel for close to 2000 years. So to make Bible prophecy work they merely substituted the Church for Israel and voila, now they have effectively pounded a square peg into a round hole.

But God did exactly what He said He would do and the nation of Israel was reborn. Instead of believing God, replacement theology was born. Now that God did exactly what He said He would do, it would seem some of you should get a clue. And when the third temple is rebuilt........just like is prophesied........still there will no be recognition from some believers that God does what He says.

Bottom line, I understand your points that the standard pretribulation rapture model is wrong. But that does not mean there will not be a pretribulation rapture. I also understand that the coming of Christ in Matthew 24 is not when He sets his foot on the Mount of Olives. It is what is spoken of in Rev 6. It is the gathering spoken of by Paul prior to the Day of the Lord. When he comes then, believers are told to look up, their redemption draws nigh. They are not in darkness so they will know what is happening.

But as usual, God will do exactly what he says he will do. He also says that He will come when we think not. And that will coming will be pretrib.....before the seals are opened. That is how to escape all the things that will come to pass............just like He says. We don't need to make up anything or substitute anything, just understand and believe the truth.

 

[Douggg]

Wow. If that isn't an allegorical interpretation of those verses and applying them to this discussion, then nothing is.

The purpose of the rapture is to get Christians out of this world before the Day of the Lord starts.