Another question for BAPTISTS re: calvinism

[kayanne]

On another thread, BT is asking baptists to tell how many points of calvinism they believe. I must be confused, because I thought there were only 5 points (tulip), yet someone else mentioned 17 (???). And some people have answered with "zero" which I had thought would mean you weren't calvinist at all. Somewhere else I read that baptists were historically armenian, but I thought "baptist" was practically synonymous with "calvinist."
This is not to debate any of the points, but just to clarify for me what someone means when they say they are calvinist.

 

[vexroid]

Definitely not synonymous with Baptists.

 

[kayanne]

Definitely not synonymous with Baptists.

So some baptists today are more armenian than calvinist? Does it vary from Southern to American to Independent to other baptists?

 

[BT]

On another thread, BT is asking baptists to tell how many points of calvinism they believe. I must be confused, because I thought there were only 5 points (tulip), yet someone else mentioned 17 (???). And some people have answered with "zero" which I had thought would mean you weren't calvinist at all. Somewhere else I read that baptists were historically armenian, but I thought "baptist" was practically synonymous with "calvinist."
This is not to debate any of the points, but just to clarify for me what someone means when they say they are calvinist.

Hiya Kayanne!

There are only 5 points of calvinism (tulip) that poster was just kidding around. Even a hyper-calvinist (super duper calvinist) concedes that there are only 5 points.

When I say that I am a 0 point calvinist you are correct that I mean that I am not a calvinist at all. I disagree with all five points in their entirety.

On the same note I do not subscribe to the arminian teaching either (in it's entirety). If you follow it to it's logical conclusion you come up with "open-theism" which is the worst kind of heresy that there is.

Baptist is not synonymous with calvinist. It was the anabaptists who were in major contention with this concept from it's beginning (practically).

Some have turned to arminianism purely as a rejection of calvinism. The problem as I see it is that some are very concerned with joining a certain theological camp. This issue in particular is soteriological and thus considered of the utmost importance. My advice, do not choose your beliefs from a predetermined (no pun intended ) system per-se. Rather rely 100% on the Word of God. This, I feel, is a true Baptist belief.

 

[Crazy Liz]

So some baptists today are more armenian than calvinist? Does it vary from Southern to American to Independent to other baptists?

I know some Armenian Baptists.

I also know some Armenian Presbyterians who are 5-pont Calvinists.

Armenians are an ethnic group originating from the region that is now part of Turkey and part of the former Soviet Republic of Armenia. Their last names usually end with -ian or -yan, like author William Saroyan, or cymbal-making family Zildjian.

Arminians are people who agree with Jacob Arminius, who precipitated a crisis within the Reformed churches not long after Calvin's death.

[/spelling teacher hat off]

John Wesley is often thought of as the carrier of Arminian doctrinal beliefs, so Methodists, Nazarenes and other Christians in the Wesleyan tradition are usually considered Arminians.

Please note that, as much as many Calvinist argue otherwise, this Calvinist/Arminian division over 5 points of doctrine does not represent the only two Christians ways to believe. Many Christians, such as Anabaptists, Quakers and Eastern Orthodox have views of salvation that do not even really ask the questions that lead to the Calvinist/Arminian disputes. For myself, learning about "third ways" to view issues that have become polarized disputes has been very helpful.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I don't know what Armenian is, but I don't know any baptists, and very few Christians altogther, who are calvanist.

 

[BT]

Please note that, as much as many Calvinist argue otherwise, this Calvinist/Arminian division over 5 points of doctrine does not represent the only two Christians ways to believe. Many Christians, such as Anabaptists, Quakers and Eastern Orthodox have views of salvation that do not even really ask the questions that lead to the Calvinist/Arminian disputes. For myself, learning about "third ways" to view issues that have become polarized disputes has been very helpful.

You're not so crazy after all!

 

[theseed]

I must be confused, because I thought there were only 5 points (tulip), yet someone else mentioned 17 (???).

It was purely a joke by me

And some people have answered with "zero" which I had thought would mean you weren't calvinist at all.

That's right, they would probably be Arminiasts.

Somewhere else I read that baptists were historically armenian, but I thought "baptist" was practically synonymous with "calvinist."

Not according to www.wikipedia.com. The General Baptists in the 16 or 1700's were arminiantic and taught that one could lose salvation.

This is not to debate any of the points, but just to clarify for me what someone means when they say they are calvinist.

When someone says they are Calvinist, they mean that they believe that God elected those people he would save before he created the world, not based on any decision they made or any othe work they do. But that he draws them, regenerates thier heart whereby the regenerate fellowships with God and comes to believe in God (if not right away).

It is usually associated with the word of Christ in Evangelism (Rom. 10.17).

But in some cases happens before birth, as in John the Baptist.

 

[theseed]

It varies from Baptist to Baptist, period--With exception to Refomed Baptist.

I would say that 99% of baptists members of SBC affiliated churches are non 5 point Calvinist.

 

[theseed]

RCC and EOC are arminianists, more or less, they simply tie it in with The Sacraments

 

[theseed]

BT you are right, if you take the absolute free will stance with God, then you can get open thiesm.

 

[Bro. Gabriel]

I'm a 7-Point Calvinist.

 

[Cright]

http://www.fact-index.com/a/ar/arminianism.html

this is not detailed at all.. but just a quick refrence that shows a very brief comparison between the two.

Carina

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

It seems to me that the Arminian position lines up far more closely with scripture.