Another question about Mary

[VOW]

To Chili:

Your interpretations are nothing like I've ever heard before. Do you have a source?

I've always understood Mary to be "The New Eve," and the business of placing Mary in Purgatory is an unusual twist.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Fr. Rob]

Originally posted by ZooMom
Where does it say that she wasn't?
Scripture does tell us that she was 'full of Grace', that her soul magnified the Lord, that all generations would call her blessed, that she was blessed among women, and that she embodied obedience to God.

In actuality, the NAB says, "Hail favored one, the Lord is with you." The KJV says, "Rejoice, thou highly favoured daughter". I don't happen to have my JB handy. However, it clearly does not say "full of grace".

Father Robert Lyons

 

[ZooMom]

http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ443.HTM

 

[Chili]

Originally posted by VOW
To Chili:


I've always understood Mary to be "The New Eve," and the business of placing Mary in Purgatory is an unusual twist.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

A source? Yes I do and no if you would like me to give you citations.

Mary is the second Eve, or new Eve, but it is not so that Eve becomes Mary. Mary presides over the TOL and Eve over the TOK. The catfight is between these two Mary's and Mary theotokos must be victorious if paradise is to be regained (see Mary and Martha parable).

Go to Gen.3 to see that the woman of the TOL saw that the TOK was good for gaining wisdom and later Adam placed Eve (the serpent) in charge of this. Hence the curse of the serpent and subordination to the serpent of the TOL. Note that the serpent image does not make Eve and Mary actual snakes but they just represent the cunning human (second)nature of the animal man. Not also that the serpent is useful to gain wisdom food and power but must not enslave us until we die. It must be defeated by Michael and later raised to have eternal life (victory over death) as displayed by the medici.

There are many classics that portray Mary as the queen of puragtory (or purgatory by any other name). "A Strange Manuscript Found in Copper Ciinder" is one and easy to understand. There is a Chinese Poem "A River Merchant's Wife: A Letter" is where she will meet us a the narrows of the River Kiang. There are many of such images in literature but they do take a little ingenuity to detect.

Please understand that if my post offend you, just disregard them.

 

[ZooMom]

TOL? TOK?

I don't find your posts offensive, just very puzzling. I've never heard any interpretation like it and I wonder where you get it from. You said you had a source? Would you mind naming it?

 

[VOW]

To Zoo:

I think it's "Tree of Life" and "Tree of Knowledge."


To Chili:

This "battle" between the two Marys is VERY confusing. The sources you cite don't appear to be approved Church references, so I'm supposing (?) that your viewpoints are a literary analysis, and not a religious one?


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Chili]

The battle between the serpents is from Gen.3:15 "I will put emnity between you (the serpent) and the woman, and between your ofspring and hers; she will strike at your head and you will strike at his heel."

True, I do literary analysis but also from the bible.

Michael defeats the serpent and in the statue known as "Mary of Grace" the serpent is trampled underfoot by Mary until crucifixion when the serpent is raised.

Hi Sandy My interpretation is different but not all that different. A source? No, not really one that I can point you to. Let's just have fun with words and pondering thoughts. I am not offensive (I hope) and more of a traditional Catholic.

 

[Stephen]

Originally posted by Hoonbaba
Hi guys,

>I was wondering about Mary. Actually, I'm concerned about her supposedly having remained sinless.<

There is no need at all for concern, Hoonbaba. Jesus said,"There is only One who is good." He was not talking about His mother, and nobody thought so. Only those who had hidden the truth from themselves for hundreds of years could have thought so.

Stephen

 

[ZooMom]

That's right. The early church didn't think so, even though their writings say otherwise. All of the Scripture, Tradition, and Patristic writings that have been posted here are merely the blinded delusions of Christians who hide the truth from themselves. For whatever purpose that serves. I'm glad that Stephen's authoritative post has cleared up the matter.

 

[Stephen]

Tradition and 'patristic' writings may be merely the worldly thoughts of worldly men. But the Catholic church decided that some writings come from God, and presumably must be treated with more care. Now if the Scriptures posted are 'blinded delusions', then it should not be at all difficult to prove it. Should you not deal with the Scripture in my post? Can you deal with the Scripture in my post? Or is there many a true word spoken in sarcasm?

Stephen

 

[KC Catholic]

ADMINISTRATOR HAT ON

I normally DON'T handle things this way...but I am doing it now.

Chilli, Stephen -> The "One Bread, One Body" Forum is NOT a debate forum. We do not debate Catholic beliefs, its not a place for NON-Catholics OR anti-Catholics to spout their rhetoric.

I will give you this warning now, next time you may find yourself banned from posting.

Anti-Catholic comments, behavior, posts, etc...WILL NOT BE TOLERATED here at "Christian Forums."

So , consider this your warning.

Peace,
KC

 

[Stephen]

KC

My apologies to you and other Catholics. I had not read the Announcement on this.

Stephen

 

[Wolseley]

Chili: Please check your PM function.

Thank you,
---Wolseley.

 

[blessed2]

Neal,

she never had to suffer from Original Sin

Says who and where?
I've heard this before but would like scripture to show it.

not as Mary was at the moment of Conception

Again, says who and where?

Fr.Rob

Not all Catholic jurisdictions teach that Mary was sinless. . . not in life, not in conception. It is not an article of the faith (as defined in the Three Ecumenical Creeds) and therefore cannot be required for salvation

Could be, however at one time I thought I would convert but was told during class by a visiting bishop that I couldn't become catholic if I didn't confess that I believe that she remained a vigin her whole life.

and no temptation to fall

The bible says even Christ was tempted in all things that he might be a faithful high priest. To understand the difficulties and the human condition....yet he overcame all. Would she better greater than He that she should not face temptation?
Thank you Father Rob.

 

[blessed2]

its not a place for NON-Catholics OR anti-Catholics to spout their rhetoric.

Just a thought.....have you not noticed how the word protestant is used as if it were a filthy word here in the catholic forums?
Just thought I'd call it to your attention.

 

[blessed2]

we are all the people of God aren't we? We may vary on this point or that but the basic's and foundation is the same.

 

[blessed2]

To Chili:

Where ARE you getting this stuff??

I was just thinking the same thing.

 

[Hoonbaba]

Whoa...now here's a really old thread.... heh

Anyway, blessed2, does terminology really matter all that much? Catholics call non-Catholics as non-Catholics, some protestants (or other non-Catholics) happy be be anti-catholic in nature. Just as there's people who are anti-semitic.

Additionally, Catholics do not believe that the bible is the sole source of authority in faith and morals.

You may disagree with us, and that's fine.

Would she better greater than He that she should not face temptation?

I believe Christ's act of enduring the temptation would place him far above Mary.

-Jason