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Another look at covenants.

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Cribstyl, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    Have you looked at your automobile insurance lately?
    Some primary features includes the beginning and end date of your policy. It tells who is covered to drive your vehicle. It gives limitation of speed limits, approved roads, and borders within your country.

    The rules stated with your policy is the law until the policy expires.

    The purpose of a covenant is to establish a binding agreement for all parties involved.
     
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  2. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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    Just because I'd like to get this out here:

    And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

    Could you explain what John saw here? What would be in this heavenly ark?
     
  3. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Another look at covenants.

    Subscribing

    http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

    Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for YLT
    "covenants"
    occurs 3 times in 3 verses in the YLT

    Young) Ephesians 2:12 that ye were at that time apart from Christ, having been alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants/diaqhkwn <1242> of the promise, having no hope and without God, in the world;

    1242. diatheke dee-ath-ay'-kay from 1303; properly, a disposition, i.e. (specially) a contract (especially a devisory will):--covenant, testament.
     
  4. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    Your response appear as unrelated to the OP..(that's why we cant conduct a reasonable dialog in the SDA forum.)
    Maybe you can explain your logic.
    One thing about covenants, it's given to explain what God requires and what He promises to do. It's not given in secret or in prophetic imagery.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  5. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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    Forgive me for jumping the gun. Wanted to skip the weather and get straight to the news. I don't disagree with the statement in the OP. I'll hold back on any further comments for the time being.
     
  6. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Or until the policy holder dies, much like a will :)

    http://www.christianforums.com/t7540925-3/#post56897035
    Just heard


     
  7. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    The fact that God's words can be law, we have to understand what He commands and to whom He commands. Law is primarily given to govern a people. Commandments are given for individuals and peoples.
    The Covenants made by God are words we can read, of what God say will happen and what man should do to live a righteous life.

    When we cant find words in a covenant or a law is when we have to look into what people are saying vs what God is commanding.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  8. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Perhaps that is one reason CF made a sub-board for that topic?

    http://www.christianforums.com/f565/
    Covenant Theology The forum for the discussion of the theological covenants.
     
  9. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    Thanks LLOJ, I will look into some topics there in the near future.:thumbsup:
     
  10. squint

    squint Well-Known Member

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    There are 'two' covenants 'as it is written' into the Law.

    One covenant is and remains firmly against 'sons of the flesh.'

    The other is for the 'son of faith and promise.'

    Both of these Covenants exist in Gods Immutable Law.

    Paul describes them quite nicely in Galatians 4, stating therein that the son of the flesh still persecutes the son of faith and promise. Paul goes on to describe that as an internal to external working of the produce of the lust of the flesh, even describing the 'works' of that lust where it becomes apparently viewed, externally viewed, and that we as believers are to avoid all such works.


    Many believers think that the first Covenant has fallen or is currently passed away. That is not the case.

    Galatians 4:
    29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.


    enjoy!

    squint
     
  11. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    I would think it was OC Jerusalem that has fallen [as prophecied by Jesus], as that was the center of Jewish temple worshipping and the OC priesthood.

    Galatian 4:24 which things is an allegory.
    For these are the two Covenants, one indeed from mount Sinai into servitude generating who any is Hagar.
    25 For the Hagar mount Sinai is in Arabia is together-elemental yet to now Jerusalem slaving/serving with the offpsrings of Her.

    Luke 19:44 And they shall be leveling thee and thy offspring in thee,
    and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee, instead which not thou knew the time of thy visitation/overseeing/inspection".

    Reve 14:8 And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great,
    the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations".
     
  12. squint

    squint Well-Known Member

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    A factual matter to observe is this. Both progeny stemmed from Abraham, the father of faith. This is an allegory of the produce of every believer in faith. To lay the charge on other people or locations would not be an accurate observation.

    The fact is we can all produce openly viewed matters of the power of 'lust' in the flesh.

    Galatians 5:
    13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.


    16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

    Deferral to other people or locations misses the mark entirely. The Two Covenants are 'personal' to believers in faith. One is for us. The other against the power of lust in the flesh.

    This struggle is our personal battle in persecutions.

    Galatians 5:
    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    As John the Apostle said: "look to yourselves."

    Or as Paul stated: "each shall bear his own burden."

    s
     
  13. Frogster

    Frogster Galatians is the best!

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    but the other people, were those not in the promise. Agreed?:)
     
  14. squint

    squint Well-Known Member

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    What other people are you talking about?

    Ishmael was a 'real' person, but he was also used as an allegory to the workings of the lust of the flesh:

    Genesis 16:12
    And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

    You know in advance that I am going to point to the 'father of lust' on this matter:


    John 8:44
    Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.


    Ishmael was a 'natural' depiction used as an allegory for the matter of lust of the flesh, that Abraham produced. If we observe 'why' Ishmael was used this way, as an allegory, it is because these matters 'point' to matters that can not be viewed 'fleshly.' The workings of the 'father of lust' just can not be seen. They are spiritually defined and compared because they speak to non-externally observed causes.

    We can not lay flesh eyes on the tempter. God uses 'allegories' and 'parables' to describe these things.

    The use of allegories and parables 'locks out' children of the flesh from understandings. This too is by Divine Decree. No child of the flesh is going to understand, nor can 'they.'

    s
     
  15. Frogster

    Frogster Galatians is the best!

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    but do you think he was talking about the peole who were not in the promise?:)

    "more are the children of the desolate"...(people)


    "they (people) that persecute you"

    "the jerusalem that is in bondage" (people)
     
  16. squint

    squint Well-Known Member

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    That's the point frog. We are not viewing 'just people' or 'just believers' in these matters.


    I've pointed to the fact that the persecution Paul describes in Galatians is 'personal' to the believer. It is assuredly 'not' about the other people or physical Jerusalem.


    Any of the works of the lust of the flesh can be and is produced 'in believers.' It is quite pointless to defer to other people or places and defray accurate judgments unto ourselves as believers.

    There is working in all of us that we must both hate and reject, lest we too become ensnared.

    Sons of the flesh shall not enter. That door is shut and locked tight and closed permanently.

    Only children 'in Truth' are allowed in. No liars allowed in.

    s
     
  17. Frogster

    Frogster Galatians is the best!

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    u r kinda mixing two issues..the other member mentioned people, and you said it was not about people, where 4;21-31 is about people..


    4;31 So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
     
  18. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Have you not read where it is written: :preach:

    Zechariah 2:13 Be-hushed! all flesh from faces of the LORD, that He is roused from habitation of holiness of Him.
    [Luke 3:6/Reve 8:1]

    Luke 3:6 And all flesh shall be seeing the Salvation of the God.
    [Gene 6:13/Zech 2:13/Reve 11:18, 19:17]

    Reve 1:7 Behold! He is coming with the clouds and every eye shall be seeing Him, even who-any Him they pierce.
    And shall be wailing over Him all the Tribes of the land; yea amen.
    [Jeremiah 4:13/Matt 24:30/26:64]

    So Let It Be Written - YouTube
     
  19. squint

    squint Well-Known Member

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    Paul is describing this matter as 'our' persecution. It is not to be defrayed the deflected to other people or places.

    Galatians 4:
    29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.


    2 Corinthians 7:1
    Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.


    Cleansing 'ourselves' is a personal matter of division against that working that we factually have.

    Galatians 5:17
    For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


    We as believers 'all' carry that working. It's not about the 'other people' or 'places.'


    The flesh remains subject to the father of lust, the tempter.


    Deferral is futile. So is denial of the fact.

    s
     
  20. listed

    listed are you?

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    If I recall correctly the Ark of the Covenant was not opened. So who knows what was in that vessel? Furthermore I would ask how it got to heaven since the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD. There is no mention of the Ark being translated. I do think you believe as an SDA that what is in heaven is a copy or the original that never was on earth. So please explain how the stone tablets, Arron's rod and whatever the heathen place in it are in heaven.
     
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