Another CMS Study Confirms Obamacare Is Becoming The Unaffordable Care Act

[Jimmy D]

Cost of hip replacement in Belgium: $13,660

Cost in the US (for example): $26,000 to you and $86,317 to the insurance.

The total bill in the US for this instance was 112,317, so there is no way "insurance" can decrease the cost better than just having a overall cost of 1/10th the price.

What did the "insurance" do in this circumstance? It doubled the price for the patient, and multiplied the real price by a factor of 10.

That is insane.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Thank you for that note of warning. I don't have any property at present, but if I ever do get a lot of money I'll read the rules carefully, and I don't get medicare either because I only have 35 credits and need 40, but I'll carefully assess the situation if I'm ever at risk of getting medicare and owning anything.

Just to clarify, Medicaid and Medicare operate quite differently.

The issue I noted with Medicaid is that it is a giveaway, but strictly for those who cannot afford medical services. If you have property, apparently Medicaid can subsequently come for it. There are a number of horror stories about Medicaid reclaiming costs by seizing property.

Medicare, in contrast, operates essentially as normal insurance. A person pays into Medicare during their working years and then obtains Medicare coverage upon retirement or disability. Hospitalization coverage is then free under Medicare, while one can purchase supplemental coverage for non-hospital services.

 

[MorkandMindy]

That is insane.

Yes, I lived in England 42 years and when I look at the US medical system I just think it's insane.

The government is keeping everyone arguing about how to pay the insane prices, because Congress gets kickbacks from the Healthcare Lobby, while the right question is not how to pay the hugely inflated prices but to cut the costs, and it would be very easy if Congress didn't want the corruption to continue.

 

[MorkandMindy]

...

The issue I noted with Medicaid is that it is a giveaway, but strictly for those who cannot afford medical services. If you have property, apparently Medicaid can subsequently come for it. There are a number of horror stories about Medicaid reclaiming costs by seizing property.

...

OK, that's in line with what I've seen, there's an error then in your second paragraph, I've written medicaid and medicare the wrong way around a lot of times myself so I should have spotted the typo

 

[NightHawkeye]

OK, that's in line with what I've seen, there's an error then in your second paragraph, I've written medicaid and medicare the wrong way around a lot of times myself so I should have spotted the typo

Thanks for the heads up.

There were a couple of errors in that paragraph which I corrected.

 

[cow451]

One senses that you're NOT interested in a sincere conversation.

I answered your question to me ... while you ignored the only question I asked you.

Your answer was “no” you don’t know and you want to deflect.

There cannot be more dialogue based on your apparent lack of understanding the role of the private sector in health insurance.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Your answer was “no” you don’t know ...

Incorrect.

Noting that if I'd stated anything substantially incorrect you would have taken issue with it. You didn't.

There cannot be more dialogue based on your apparent lack of understanding the role of the private sector in health insurance.

That's fine.

That you have no interest in dialogue is noted.

 

[Gene2memE]

Meanwhile, a New Orleans appeal court has just found the ObamaCare individual mandate to be 'unconstitutional'.

The reason? Because Congress, in 2017, made new laws that eliminated punitive measures for not taking health insurance. Without this in place, it invalidates the original Supreme Court ruling in 2012, that found the law was based on Congress’ authority to levy taxes.

It's now been punted back down to the lower court, to decide what parts of the ObamaCare individual mandate are now 'unconstitutional' following the 2017 revisions. However, the original judge has been instructed to completely revise his approach to assessing the law - indicating the appeals court agreed with his conclusions, but not necessarily his workings.

I refer you to my earlier analogy - if you actively try to wreck a car, its not the fault of its designer that it doesn't work properly.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Meanwhile, a New Orleans appeal court has just found the ObamaCare individual mandate to be 'unconstitutional'.

The reason? Because Congress, in 2017, made new laws that eliminated punitive measures for not taking health insurance. Without this in place, it invalidates the original Supreme Court ruling in 2012, that found the law was based on Congress’ authority to levy taxes.

It's now been punted back down to the lower court, to decide what parts of the ObamaCare individual mandate are now 'unconstitutional' following the 2017 revisions. However, the original judge has been instructed to completely revise his approach to assessing the law - indicating the appeals court agreed with his conclusions, but not necessarily his workings.

I refer you to my earlier analogy - if you actively try to wreck a car, its not the fault of its designer that it doesn't work properly.

Noting that the original 2012 Supreme Court ruling was fatally flawed from the outset ... when John Roberts inverted the government's own arguments to find something about it which was constitutional.

Obamacare was always a house of cards. Even Democrats knew it at the time. Their intention was to use Obamacare as a stop-gap until they could implement single-payer. One can hope that the single-payer specter has been put to rest, at least for the time being.

 

[variant]

That is insane.

What's insane is that our public debate doesn't even seem to bring up the obvious facts.

Healthcare costs more in the US because literally nothing is done to address the fact that healthcare providers are setting ridiculous prices completely out of scale with the rest of the world and all we have developed is a way to get them their money without most people noticing.

We pay more than double for healthcare and have been getting worse results. We actually pay more on socialized medicine than most other countries combined costs and we only cover the elderly and the poor. The "liberal" "solution" to the problem is to get everyone insurance that does little to address the costs involved, while the "conservative" solution is to do nothing and hope the system doesn't collapse on their watch.

We have ignored obvious solutions that have proven track records of helping to control costs and a large part the media does nothing but demonize every solution on earth that has been shown to work.

We're dumb. As a group, america is dumb and corrupt, and our government is not interested in making sure we can get medical care at a workable price.

The most popular and workable solution to the problem in the first world is "too radical".

American on average is a radical on healthcare, radically stupid.

 

[Basil the Great]

Another Study Confirms Obamacare Is The Unaffordable Care Act

A recently released analysis by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) confirms what Democrats themselves have admitted: Obamacare has priced millions out of the market for health insurance.
...
The large percentages of unsubsidized people dropping coverage in many states — in most cases, because they could not afford their rapidly escalating premiums — show the unstable nature of the Obamacare “marketplaces.” With only people who qualify for subsidies able to afford their premiums, most states’ insurance markets have become dependent on the morphine drip of subsidies from Washington.

In other words, the preexisting condition provisions have proven the largest factor in pricing literally millions of people out of their health insurance coverage. This mean[ s ], ironically enough, such people now have no coverage should they develop any such condition.
...
American people need to know the answers and need to understand the effects of Obamacare. Liberals wouldn’t have you know it, but families care more about the affordability of health coverage than about losing their coverage due to a preexisting condition. Reforms codified by the Trump administration will help provide portable and more affordable coverage to many Americans and represent one of several better solutions to tackle the preexisting condition problem.
​

Imagine that, pre-existing conditions making coverage more expensive. It was purely predictable.

​

Perhaps this news will give a lift to Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, both of whom want a single payer system?

 

[cow451]

Incorrect.

Noting that if I'd stated anything substantially incorrect you would have taken issue with it. You didn't.

Your answer clearly demonstrated you don’t know how it works. The rest is your deflection attempt and I’m not playing your game.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Your answer clearly demonstrated you don’t know how it works. The rest is your deflection attempt and I’m not playing your game.

That's fine. As I said previously, it's clear you have no interest in dialogue.

Consider though that dialogue offers an opportunity to learn from others. Throwing insults, not so much.

 

[cow451]

That's fine. As I said previously, it's clear you have no interest in dialogue.

Consider though that dialogue offers an opportunity to learn from others. Throwing insults, not so much.

There are others I might learn from. In this case you simply don’t know what you don’t know.

 

[NightHawkeye]

There are others I might learn from. In this case you simply don’t know what you don’t know.

That's fine. In the future then, I would simply ask that since you agree that you have no interest in sincere dialogue, please don't pretend to have conversation when you're simply sniping.

 

[Gigimo]

Neither Obamacare nor Medicare for all will work out well long term.

Especially for us working folks.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Especially for us working folks.

It's important to share on a forum to help break down the gulf of misunderstanding between the middle class and the working class and between Democrats and Republicans (note my new avatar).

 

[MorkandMindy]

I spoke with someone at Medicaid who said the best option for me would be Obamacare and the Marketplace app would offer suitable plans. I mentioned my income is 510 dollars a month and she said it is affordable.

The lowest priced Obamacare plan for my age range is 530 dollars a month, and she said that's a very good price, and it covers 60% of my out of pocket expenses. I then had to point out that the plan costs 20 dollars a month more than my total income and then she noticed there was a genuine problem.

Although she works in Medicaid she had for some reason never met or never understood what it is like to live on a minimum wage job or a small pension. These office staff aren't enemies, they simply don't know what is going on around them.