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Featured Annihilationism Is Actually...Biblical

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jordan Henshaw, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    I didn't see the word "annihilation." I guess those people who were destroyed will not be resurrected and judged.
    Tell me what it means to you and let me prove you wrong.
     
  2. Jordan Henshaw

    Jordan Henshaw Active Member

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    What does the Tree of Life mean to you?
     
  3. brakelite3

    brakelite3 Newbie

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    Then if this psalm pertained only to this life, then the wicked, according to David, never won a war...never succeeded in a battle...were always overthrown and not found...failed in everything they put their hand to...
    But you know that isn't right don't you. In fact, one of the most difficult challenges for uninformed or immature Christians to answer is that posited by unbelievers...why is it that the wicked do so well and the good die young? However, if you place Psalm 37 in its correct context...that is pertaining to eternal destinies...it is the only way it makes sense, else we would have to charge David as being a false prophet.
     
  4. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Most people are aware (especially Satanists) that the name "Lucifer" is another name for the devil. Just your saying it does not mean that does not erase the reality of such a thing. People even deny the devil's existence. But Scripture teaches that he is a real being. But there is Biblical evidence that Isaiah 14 is in fact talking about the devil.

    The name "Lucifer" means light bearer.

    In Isaiah 14:12, the devil's name "Lucifer" is replaced with "Day Star" or the "Morning Star." Yes, I am aware that "morning stars" are angels in the book of Job.

    But Modern Translations also say this is the Shining Star or the Son of the Dawn. Why?

    Jesus says,
    "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (Revelation 22:16).

    So Jesus is the BRIGHT and MORNING star!

    Yet, the individual in Isaiah 14:12 in Modern Translations is called the shining (bright) and morning star or the Day Star, etc.

    So the devil is trying to be like the most high here. He is taking a similar sounding title of Jesus in Isaiah 14:12.

    For where is the bright and morning star up in the sky?
    It is the sun.
    That is why He is called the bright and morning star because the sun is bright and rises in the morning.

    As I said before, "Lucifer" means "light bearer."
    Scripture tells us this is what it means.

    "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Corinthians 11:14).

    The word "angel" also means "messenger." So 2 Corinthians 11:14 is saying that Satan is a light messenger or light bearer. In fact, when Satan is described with having all kinds of jewelry on him, it was symbolic of who he was. Certain gemstones refract light. They are not light themselves, but they merely reflect whatever light is in existence. Gemstones are like little light bearers. So how fitting the name "Lucifer" is for the devil. Yet, Modern Translations seek to give the devil a name that is similar to Jesus. This is wrong (of course).

    I will attempt to talk more on Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 later.

    May God bless you;
    And may you please be well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  5. brakelite3

    brakelite3 Newbie

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    1 Chron. 28:18 And for the altar of incense refined gold by weight; and gold for the pattern of the chariot of the cherubims, that spread out their wings, and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord.

    The earthly sanctuary was a copy of the heavenly.

    Heb. 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

    So the two gold cherubim that 'covered' the mercy seat were representative of two real cherubim that 'covered', stood over as guardians, the throne of God in heaven.

    The king of Tyre was not one of them.
     
  6. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    In addition, I would add that the Scriptures also say that God is good.

    "O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endurethfor ever" (Psalms 136:1).

    "...there is none good but one, that is, God" (Matthew 19:17). (Side Note: God's people can be good but it is only by allowing God to live and shine through them - See Matthew 5:16).

    Scripture also says God is into fair justice, as well; For it is written,

    47 "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
    48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." (Luke 12:47-48).

    "...Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25).
     
  7. Jordan Henshaw

    Jordan Henshaw Active Member

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    Let's talk about the kid in Africa who has never heard the name Jesus, yet lived his entire life selflessly serving his family and sacrificed his own life at a young age to keep his siblings alive.

    ECT supporters believe that a just God would punish this kid with the most painful form of torture known to man for trillions of years?

    Because the missionaries didn't get to him in time?

    Because he was somehow supposed to trust in the name of Jesus despite even knowing of His existence?

    In order to believe that such punishment is justice, you MUST deny every sense of decency, humanity, and ethics. You MUST believe that there is NO difference between good and evil - for such treatment by human standards is THE MOST EVIL THING ONE COULD POSSIBLY DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And what does an ECT supporter believe actually happens to these people who are punished with eternal conscious torment?

    After the first day, they would have to become insane, mindless zombies. The mind can only take so much. After the first week, they would brain dead. After the first month, they would be very brain dead. After the first year, they would be very, very, very, very, very, very, very brain dead. And after the first decade they would be very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very brain dead. Care to speculate how brain dead they would be after just a thousand years?

    Let's have a brief sample of how long this torment would last. In the view of Young Earth creationists, the earth is about 6,000 years old. This is the amount of years from Adam to you. Now multiply that number by the number of atoms that make up this planet. That's 10^49 X 6,000. You would end up with more zeroes than there are characters in this entire thread combined. Now remember what we're counting - we aren't counting seconds, minutes, or even hours... we are counting centuries.

    Are you familiar with what the number google is? This is google:

    1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

    Now if I understand their position correctly (correct me if I'm wrong), the ECT supporter believes that the little kid in Africa who lived his life in service to his family and laid down his life so that his siblings could live - the little kid in Africa who NEVER ONCE heard the name Jesus - deserves to be punished with the most painful form of torture known to man for more than

    googlexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgooglegooglexgooglexgooglexgooglexgoogle

    centuries. And this is the view held by the vast majority of christian churches?

    That kid gets the same punishment as Adolf Hitler? Eternal conscious torment?

    This is justice?

    And when someone challenges this belief by using dozens of bible verses that teach the complete opposite, only ONE person has what it takes to defend ECT?


    Point 1:

    The bible specifically states more than 34 times throughout scripture that immortality is given as a gift to the righteous only. In Genesis, God casts Adam and Eve out of the garden specifically to protect them from the curse of immortality.

    1 John 3:15; Mark 10:17; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:18; John 3:16; John 5:39; John 6:54; John 6:68; John 10:28; John 17:2; John 17:3; Acts 13:48; Romans 2:7; Romans 5:21; Romans 6:23; 1 Timothy 6:19; Titus 1:2; Titus 3:7; 1 John 1:2; 1 John 2:25; 1 John 3:15; 1 John 5:11; 1 John 5:13; 1 John 5:20; Jude 1:21; Genesis 3:22; Revelation 2:7; Revelation 22:2; Revelation 22:14; John 4:14; Revelation 21:6; 1 Corinthians 15:53; 1 Corinthians 15:54; 1 Timothy 6:16





    Point 2:
    The bible expressly states that the wicked shall be destroyed, slaughtered, and burned to ashes repeatedly throughout scripture. Our example of what will happen to the wicked is Sodom, which is no longer burning.

    Mathew 10:28; Romans 6:23; James 1:15; 2 Corinthians 7:10; 1 John 5:16; Revelation 20:14; Revelation 21:8; Philippians 3:19; Psalm 145:20; Mathew 7:13; Psalm 68:2; John 3:16; John 10:28; Jude 1:7





    Point 3:
    If the punishment for sin was eternal conscious torment, Jesus must still be dead. Or else his tiny sacrifice of simply death must be meaningless in the face of God’s eternal anger.

    Isaiah 53:5-6; John 10:11; 1 Peter 2:24; Mark 10:45; Hebrews 10:9; Romans 3:25; 1 Peter 3:18; Ephesians 5:25; Leviticus 16:10; 1 John 3:16; Deuteronomy 21:22


    The view of Annihilationism is this:

    "The wages of sin is DEATH, but the gift of God is eternal LIFE in Christ Jesus our Lord."

    That pretty much sums it up.

    Here's another way of putting it:

    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in Him shall not PERISH, but would have eternal LIFE."

    The view of ECT is this:

    "The wages of sin is eternal life in torment, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in Him shall not suffer eternal TORMENT, but would have eternal LIFE."


    It just so happens that only one of those beliefs is biblical.


    Questions for the ECT supporter:


    1. What does the Tree of Life mean to you?

    2. What does the bible mean when it repeatedly states that eternal life is a gift for the righteous?

    3. How did Jesus pay our price for sin if the price he paid was death, instead of eternal torment?

    4. Why does the bible repeatedly talk about the wicked being destroyed, killed, and burned up if they live forever?

    5. If Sodom is our example of eternal fire and what will happen to the wicked, how is it no longer burning?

    6. How do people thrown into a lake of burning sulfur survive for trillions of years in said lake?

    7. Why would God want sin and people who hate him to be around for eternity?

    8. How can God ever deliver justice to the wicked if the act of punishment is eternal and can never be complete in its implementation?

    9. If the body and soul can be killed in hell, what could possibly be left over to suffer?


    Now if an ECT supporter out there would like to come forward and present a coherent, big picture rebuttal to Annihilationism, PLEASE DO SO!!! I AM BEGGING YOU!!! LITERALLY!!!!
     
  8. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    As I said amigo this is a discussion forum, I'm not here to play 20 questions. . You first then I'll address your mistakes.
     
  9. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    What exactly does ECT stand for?
     
  10. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    The term you are misrepresenting is "googol" NOT google.
     
  11. Jordan Henshaw

    Jordan Henshaw Active Member

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    Eternal Conscious Torment.
     
  12. Jordan Henshaw

    Jordan Henshaw Active Member

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    The question was directed to you. Not to me.

    If you continue to refuse to answer such a simple question, you essentially forfeit the debate.

    And you have a total of 8 unanswered questions, by the way (that were first asked several pages back).
     
  13. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Thank you for this unsupported opinion. Yet another version of "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" Right "eternal destinies" the wicked having their arms broken and being pierced by their own swords and the righteous looking all over paradise for the wicked.
     
  14. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    In your dreams! Definitely "Neener, neener, neener I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!"
     
  15. Jordan Henshaw

    Jordan Henshaw Active Member

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    Whatever dude.

    Googolplex Written Out

    That's how many centuries that kid in Africa will be tortured with excruciating pain. According not to bible, but to ECT supporters.

    Are you an ECT supporter?
     
  16. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Wrong as usual. Isaiah 14 is about the death of the king of Babylon, see. vs. 9
    Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!...
    Now read the rest in-context.
    Isa 14:9-16:1
    (9) Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
    (10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
    (11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
    (12) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    (13) For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    (14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
    (15) Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
    (16) They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
    The person called Lucifer is the "man" "that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;" Not Satan. Anybody can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to selectively quoting bits and pieces out-of-context. And FYI the "morning star" is not the sun it is the planet Venus.


     
  17. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Unlike the "Hell, no" crowd I read the entire Bible not just a handful of out-of-context proof texts. What about the kid in Africa?
    Romans 4:15
    (15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
    Romans 5:13
    (13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    What about the other people in Africa or anywhere else?
    Psalms 19:1-4
    (1) To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
    (2) Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
    (3) There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
    (4) Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
    Romans 1:18-20
    (18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    (19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    (20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
     
  18. Jordan Henshaw

    Jordan Henshaw Active Member

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    What's your point?
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    It’s common knowledge that demons possess men. So it’s talking about the man and Satan.

    Daniel 10:13-20 says that for every “ground prince” there is a ruling demon prince (a principality) or a fallen angel.

    You can read more on this at:
    Double Portion Inheritance: Is Lucifer the Morning Star?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  20. Butch5

    Butch5 Newbie Supporter

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    It's vastly responsible. The idea comes from the Platonic teaching that man is immortal. If the wicked are going to be burned up and man is immortal then the wicked must be immortal. Therefore the wicked must burn forever. The whole concept is based on the false notion that man is a spirit/soul that lives on forever. However, as was shown in the op only the saved will live on forever, the wicked will be destroyed.
     
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