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Featured Annihilationism Is Actually...Biblical

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jordan Henshaw, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Once again thank you for this unsupported opinion. The word translated "have" in John 3:16 is not a future tense it is εχη V-PAS-3S, of ἔχω i.e. verb, present, active, subjunctive, 3d person, singular. Of course your unsupported opinion seems the best explanation to you.
     
  2. Sanoy

    Sanoy Well-Known Member

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    Strongs says it's future tense but perhaps it's not within this form. I freely admit that I could be wrong on the Greek but even if I am the point still persists because it is logically and contextually a future event. We are not immortal now. If something, God forbid, happened to us we would die. Then in the resurrection when we are given new bodies we will be immortal. The event itself is a future event whether or not the Greek can carry it.

    For the third time I am making an abductive argument. If you don't understand what that means just ask and I will explain it. To date you still have not provided a competing explanation so the argument remains unchallenged.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  3. Jordan Henshaw

    Jordan Henshaw Active Member

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    What does the Tree of Life mean to you?

    What does the bible mean when it repeatedly states that eternal life is a gift for the righteous?

    How did Jesus pay our price for sin if the price he paid was death, instead of eternal torment?

    Why does the bible repeatedly talk about the wicked being destroyed, killed, and burned up if they live forever?

    If Sodom is our example of eternal fire and what will happen to the wicked, how is it no longer burning?

    How do people thrown into a lake of burning sulfur survive for trillions of years in said lake?

    Why would God want sin and people who hate him to be around for eternity?

    How can God ever deliver justice to the wicked if the act of punishment is eternal and can never be complete in its implementation?

    If the body and soul can be killed in hell, what could possibly be left over to suffer?


    Answer all those questions from ECT and you may have a case.
     
  4. Sanoy

    Sanoy Well-Known Member

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    Throughout the prophets earthly kings are paralleled with supernatural creatures. While the beasts may reflect the target audience in various forms the underlying individual remains the same. The king of Tyre was not in the Garden of Eden, he is simply being likened to the nachash who was.
     
  5. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

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    Sorry for delayed response, been busy.

    From the scriptural use as well as the definitions of those words, I feel like the best definition is the spirit is the 'animating life force' for the body. It's what allows the flesh/body we live in to move/live. The word soul, comes from the Greek word PSUCHE. It's the 'derivative source word' from which we get psyche (ward), psychology, psychologist in English from. IOW the soul is the 'brain functioning' as mind, will, emotion. The best definition of soul is the 'motivating life force' of the body. IOW I will', 'I won't, 'I can', I can't'.....because of a'stinking thinking mind' or because of past emotional pain ect. Those are all things we work out the salvation AFTER our spirit is saved or born again. And that happens when we first come to Christ Jesus as savior. Only your spirit got saved on day one.

    I have multiple bibles which don't have the word eternity in them. Other than the two times which use the only Greek word which really means timelessness both forward and backward. And that word is Adios.

    You are an annihilationist right? So you therefore believe that most of His beloved creation which He never "called, chose, drew, predestined, foreordained that they might believe" in order that they might be saved in this age...all get to be incinerated right?

    We've already explained this, and this is the third time. Where do you put 'perishables' after grocery shopping? In the refrigerator. Why? So they don't rot. Spirit and soul don't decay or rot, only flesh does. Immortality is for the flesh not the soul, spirit. John 3:16 isn't saving you from hell, it's saving you from PERISHING.

    Nominal Christianity thinks Jesus came to save everyone from eternal hell. :doh: That's not even the first sermons message from Peter on the day of Pentecost to the first church.

    ACT 2:40 And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, "Save yourselves FROM this crooked generation."

    Did Jesus' spirit die on the cross? Did His soul die on the cross for you, or did his body die on the cross? I'm going with his sinful flesh (natured) body died. BTW Jesus never yielded to his sinful flesh nature, therefore he never sinned.

    ROM 8:3 For God has done what the law, weake ned by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
    4 in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.


    Brilliant carnal minded theologians should have never capitalized Spirit in this verse above. It is talking about the holy spirit of Christ in you, and that spirit is not the Holy Spirit of God. It is the same spirit Jesus yielded to the Father on the cross. And that is the same spirit which led Jesus unto a perfected life qualifying him to die sinless in our place. It is also the spirit which vivified the body of Christ after it went to preach to the spirits of those who died in the days of Noah. Hmmm, spirits that did not die when the bodies they indwelt did? Hello! :idea:

    1CO 6:17 But he who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.

    And it is "Christ in you the hope of glory" or immortality on this side of glory.

    Show me where the book of the life of the lamb' is about you going to heaven? And not really about you apprehending the life of the lamb for your body here and now as "you work out the salvation of your soul with fear and trembling."

    For the body, I agree ashes to ashes dust to dust. Yep.

    Don't be offended, but there is a saying; The dumber people are the quicker they are to go to the Revelation to prove their point. John was "in spirit" on the day of the Revelation. And if you aren't in spirit in your understanding of what he saw, you will not arrive at the truths that would "soon take place" because "the time is near" Rev1:1,3
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  6. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing that likely applies to the biggest majority of us. I was raised a Baptist, and this was one of their pet doctrines at the time. I had a number of friends and schoolmates at the time who met with untimely deaths at young ages. I couldn't even sleep at night a lot of times because I was tormented with the thought of them burning in hell forever. And speaking of that, the proponents of ETC, I wonder how many of these are losing sleep at night worrying about some of their loved ones who might go to their graves unsaved, thus being tormented forever and ever without end? That could be someone's mother, someone's father, someone's son, someone's daughter, so on and so on.
     
  7. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    God can give the righteous eternal life but He can't give the unrighteous eternal existence? How did the three Hebrew slaves Shadrach, Meschach and Abednego survive in a furnace heated 7 times more than usual? How did the bush not burn that Moses saw? God is omnipotent if God wants something it happen, it will.
     
  8. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Thank you for this unsupported opinion. Interpreting scripture to make it line up with one's assumptions/presuppositions. If the plain sense of scripture makes good sense then it is nonsense to look for any other sense.
     
  9. Jordan Henshaw

    Jordan Henshaw Active Member

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    One down, many more to go!

    So what is the distinction between eternal "life" and eternal "existence"?
     
  10. Jordan Henshaw

    Jordan Henshaw Active Member

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    Every time you repeat this phrase I laugh.

    You do realize how massively unintelligent this statement is, right?
     
  11. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Abductive reasoning is to abduce (or take away) a logical assumption, explanation, inference, conclusion, hypothesis, or best guess from an observation or set of observations. Because the conclusion is merely a best guess, the conclusion that is drawn may or may not be true.
     
  12. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Bad example IMO. The idea is that those cast in the LOF are tormented. Clearly these 3 weren't tormented in this fire. This example proves nothing.

    Daniel 3:22 Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

    Let's not forget about this part----and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. I take that to mean the flame of the fire literally killed these men.
     
  13. Colter

    Colter Member

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    There is either life or death. The false teaching that God would burn his lost children for an eternity is just soooo sick and silly, its not even worthy of being called a primitive belief! Its an infinitely sadistic belief. That God isn't the one revealed in the life of Jesus.
     
  14. Sanoy

    Sanoy Well-Known Member

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    This is a known thing in mainstream biblical and ANE study. I can link you a journal on it if you want though it should really be obvious given that the king of Tyre was not in Eden.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  15. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    I don't pay attention to uniformed opinions. If there is no literal sense then anyone can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to. Everything is figurative, symbolic and the symbolism etc. just happens to support their assumptions/presuppositions.
    Epistemologically, there are three things that critical awareness reveals about the process of knowing: (1) the observer only looks from one point of view; (2) all humans inevitably and naturally interpret the information received from their senses through a grid of expectations, memories, stories and psychological states; and (3) the lenses through which one looks is greatly influenced by the communities to which he belongs.1
    http://equip.sbts.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/SBJT-V14-N.1-Bandy.pdf
     
  16. Sanoy

    Sanoy Well-Known Member

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    That is correct. In short it is an appeal to the best explanation. It is the proper method of reasoning wherein certainty is not available such as this where the plain language can lend itself to either explanation.
     
  17. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Your response proves nothing. If God can make a fire kill some and leave others alive, and unharmed and a bush on fire but not consumed, I'm sure He can keep people alive and punish them in a fire. After all God is omnipotent. Do you want to tell God He can't do that?
     
  18. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Ask the rich man in Luke 16 or those in the LOF being tormented day and night for ever and ever.
     
  19. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    See my post above.
    Epistemologically, there are three things that critical awareness reveals about the process of knowing: (1) the observer only looks from one point of view; (2) all humans inevitably and naturally interpret the information received from their senses through a grid of expectations, memories, stories and psychological states; and (3) the lenses through which one looks is greatly influenced by the communities to which he belongs.
    #3 "the lenses through which one looks is greatly influenced by the communities to which he belongs." i.e. his/her assumptions/presuppositions.
     
  20. Sanoy

    Sanoy Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea what point you are trying to make, how it substantiates ECT, or how it undermines Annihilation. You paste a lot of words but type very few of them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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