Annihilationism Is Actually...Biblical

[ClementofA]

The usual out-of-context proof texts.
Jesus speaking to the Galileans who FYI were alive and listening to Him. I don't see anything about the dead here

Mat 11:28-30
(28) "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
(29) Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
(30) For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."​

Where does Jesus say the unrighteous dead in hades will be laying down their burdens and coming to Him?

Joh 6:35-37
(35) Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
(36) But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.
(37) All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.​

What about the ones that the Father did not give Jesus? Why didn't Jesus say everyone will come to me?

​

The usual meaningless link to writings by anonymous people with no stated or demonstrated expertise in Biblical languages or Bible history. Might as well ask the guy who picks up my trash on Tue. Now for your out-of-context proof text from Isa.

Isa 45:6
(6) so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is no other.​

Will the sun be rising and setting for the dead unrighteous in hades? This must refer to events in this world and living people.

Isa 45:16
(16) All the makers of idols will be put to shame and disgraced; they will go off into disgrace together.​

Will there be idol makers in hades, will they be put to shame and disgraced or will they turn to God and be saved?

Isa 45:13
(13) I will raise up Cyrus in my righteousness: I will make all his ways straight. He will rebuild my city and set my exiles free, but not for a price or reward, says the LORD Almighty."​

Obviously this passage is about King Cyrus who God used to punish Israel about 700 BC

Isa 45:22
(22) "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.​

I didn't know there were any "ends of the earth" in hades where the unrighteous dead are, so this must be talking about people in this life.

Isa 45:24
(24) They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone are deliverance and strength.'" All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame.​

Will those who raged against God be saved , vs. 22, or will they be put to shame?
Still waiting for at least one, more would be better, where "Love Omnipotent," God Himself, says that He will save/reconcile all mankind after death and punishment, even if they don't repent in this life? Unless you can do that your "Love Omnipotent" and "milk carton expiry date" catch phrases are meaningless.

​

Isa.45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

It seems they will "come to Him" & "be ashamed" of themselves:

Isa.45:24 The people will declare, "The LORD is the source of all my righteousness and strength." And all who were angry with him will come to him and be ashamed.

And he that "comes to Him" shall find rest & He shall not cast out (Mt.11:28; Jn.6:37).

Phil.2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

"You forget that evangelicals claim that God is omnipotent, infinitely patient, and all-wise, but upon further consideration they actually believe God lacks all 3 qualities. Once people reject Him in this life, God doesn't know how to give them another chance after death. Why not? Because He is just not resourceful enough to give them this new opportunity. You see, Clement, when Jesus preaches to the wicked "spirits -in "prison" (= Hell--1 Peter 3:19; 4:6), Jesus never considered the possibility that some of them might respond, and so, He forgot to give the altar call! And when, Christ anticipates every knee on earth, in heaven, and in Hell bowing after death and confessing Him as Lord, He's sorta stuck with all those lost souls in heaven {Philippians 2:9-11). What Paul doesn't tell you here is that there is a trap door under all these lost souls. So after Jesus gets the worship and confession of His Lordship, He sneakily pulls the lever and all those lost souls fall screaming back to Hell."

1 Timothy 2:4 + God does all He desires = all will be saved?

This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour,
and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

"God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Ph. 2:9-11 NAS). Is this forced worship, or one offered genuinely from the heart? Below are 20 points that together, I believe, unmistakably affirm true worship."

Continued on pages 197-200 at:

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[Viren]

No Jesus did NOT say the wicked would suffer the same fate. The word translated "example" also means "sample" The point that you keep ignoring is in Jude aionios only modifies fire when Jesus spoke He said both the punishment and the fire was aionios.

To the ages or aionios means final judgement and the punishment is destruction. Later in Jude they are said to be like those destroyed in Korah's rebellion where thousands died.

 

[Der Alte]

* * * Repetitious copy/paste nonsense which has already been refuted omitted * * *

Repeating the same argument which has already been refuted does not make it correct.
Still waiting for at least one, more would be better, where "Love Omnipotent," God Himself, says that He will save/reconcile all mankind after death and punishment, even if they don't repent in this life? Unless you can do that your "Love Omnipotent" and "milk carton expiry date" catch phrases are meaningless.

 

[Der Alte]

To the ages or aionios means final judgement and the punishment is destruction. Later in Jude they are said to be like those destroyed in Korah's rebellion where thousands died.

Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever;[εις τους αιωνας] and of his kingdom there shall be no end.​

Jesus' reign over the house of Jacob is unto aionas. And His kingdom, over which He reigns, shall never end. Thus the word αιωνας means eternity not ages.

 

[Der Alte]

Lose it for how long? It doesn't say forever. Can one who loses their soul find it again later? Did king Nebuchadnezzar lose his soul for 7 years when he ate grass like an animal...UNTIL...God restored him & he worshipped Love Omnipotent:
Dan.4:33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
34a But at the end of that period, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him...
35 All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, But He does according to His will in the host of heaven And among the inhabitants of earth; And no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, 'What have You done?'
36 At that time my reason returned to me. And my majesty and splendor were restored to me for the glory of my kingdom, and my counselors and my nobles began seeking me out; so I was reestablished in my sovereignty, and surpassing greatness was added to me.
37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise, exalt and honor the King of heaven, for all His works are true and His ways just, and He is able to humble those who walk in pride.
Here again a punishment is...UNTIL...a certain point:
Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail.
I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.
Which is spoken of in the context of references to Gehenna, both before & after this passage. Likewise here is yet another passage re punishment...UNTIL...a certain time:
Mt.18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 That is how My Heavenly Father will treat each of you, unless you forgive your brother from your heart.
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? (Mt.16:26, KJV)
A parallel passage states:
What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self? Lk.9:25
The word for "lose" is apollumi. The same Greek word used of the lost sheep, coin, & prodigal son who were "lost" & later found (Luke 15).

Irrelevant! Misrepresents the point I was making. All of your links are meaningless the opinions of single individuals many with no stated or demonstrated expertise in Biblical languages or Bible history.

 

[Viren]

Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever;[εις τους αιωνας] and of his kingdom there shall be no end.​

Jesus' reign over the house of Jacob is unto aionas. And His kingdom, over which He reigns, shall never end. Thus the word αιωνας means eternity not ages.

Yeah, eternal or final judgement. Either eternal life or destruction.

The Lord is a consuming fire so what ever is in the fire will be used up and turned to ash.

 

[Der Alte]

Yeah, eternal or final judgement. Either eternal life or destruction.
The Lord is a consuming fire so what ever is in the fire will be used up and turned to ash.

The lake of fire is not the Lord, the Lord is not the lake of fire. The unrepentant are thrown into the LOF. While the LOF is called "the second death" not one verse says anything/anyone is thrown into the LOF then they die. In fact, one verse says three living beings, one the false prophet is a human, are thrown into the LOF, they do not die but are tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

 

[ClementofA]

Irrelevant! Misrepresents the point I was making.

It didn't misrepresent anything, nor have you provided an iota of evidence that it did. As anyone can see, i was addressing the verse, not your "point", which i didn't quote & have no interest in.

All of your links are meaningless the opinions of single individuals many with no stated or demonstrated expertise in Biblical languages or Bible history.

That is simply false. And how would you know, since you've stated many times that you don't read them. Furthermore, who decides who's qualified? You? So called experts often disagree with one another? What do you do then, when those you put faith in for your beliefs don't agree? Here's an idea. Follow the teaching of Scripture instead of blindly following men such as pastors, Popes, denominational creeds, Jewish myths, fairy tales & horror stories:

1 Jn.2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Acts 4:13 When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.

 

[ClementofA]

The lake of fire is not the Lord, the Lord is not the lake of fire. The unrepentant are thrown into the LOF. While the LOF is called "the second death" not one verse says anything/anyone is thrown into the LOF then they die. In fact, one verse says three living beings, one the false prophet is a human, are thrown into the LOF, they do not die but are tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

Rev.14:9-11 & 20:10 & forever & ever a deceptive translation:
If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

12 points re forever and ever being finite
For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

 

[Der Alte]

... You see, Clement, when Jesus preaches to the wicked "spirits -in "prison" (= Hell--1 Peter 3:19; 4:6), Jesus never considered the possibility that some of them might respond, and so, He forgot to give the altar call! ...

Jesus did not preach to anyone in hell. Jesus was never in "hell.".

1 Peter 3:19-20
(19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
(20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.​

Prison is never called hell and hell is never called prison in the Bible. The ones who were saved by this preaching were alive, not dead, "eight souls" Noah and his family. Jesus' ministry was to preach to the living not dead souls in hell.

Luke 4:18-19
(18) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
(19) To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
(21) And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. ​

The "prisoners" Jesus preached to were living. The word translated "captives" in vs. 18 literally means "prisoners of war."

tentmakers,org/books/hope/hope_beyond_hell

I'm not the one blindly following anyone. But in virtually every post you link some anonymous blog and follow everything they say just because it supports your assumptions/presuppositions. Most of them have no stated or demonstrated expertise in Biblical languages or scripture.

 

[ClementofA]

Yanking something out of context and claiming it predicts a NT event is not the same as actually reading "for ever" in scripture. And just for future reference what exactly does "for ever" in Lam 3;31 mean? Here are some choices "the age of mountains,''"the age of a man,""a lifetime,""a long time""indeterminate age"

Since you've accepted the KJV translation "forever" (Lam.3:31) in all the many discussions of this verse we've had before, what brings up your question here? Do you find that your dozen or so other attempts to de-fuse my argument have been inadequate? Do you not accept the NIV & NET translations "forever" which you have said before that you trust? Is your trust in them waning?

Yes I did what? I do have a lot of trust in the NIV and NET and I frequently quote the NIV, since most folks younger than me can't understand the KJV. But you have a propensity for cherry picking sources which seem to support your assumptions/presuppositions and ignoring sources which contradict you Which you did in this case both the JPS and LXX contradict your agenda.

Yes, you did cherry pick JPS & one translators opinion re how the LXX should be rendered.
Even though you've stated before you trust NIV & NET which i quoted.

"Jewish opinions aren't inspired." I want you to remember this every time you post a bunch of links from anoynomus people with no, zeo, none stated or demonstrated expertise in the Biblical languages or Bible history, including the link at the bottom of this post.

I want you to remember your statement "Irrelevant not scripture" when you quote extrabiblical nonchristian Jewish opinions, church fathers, lexicons, & other sources which come under the heading of "Irrelevant not scripture". So you can be reminded by yourself, in your opinion, that what you are posting is "Irrelevant not scripture":

Irrelevant not scripture.

What the Jewish sources which I quote have, which none of your links have, they are the only documented evidence of the historical beliefs and practices of the Jews. Wait a minute wasn't Jesus and His disciples Jews and wouldn't they know what other 1st century Jews believed?

To quote you again: "Irrelevant not scripture." Are nonchristian extrabiblical Jewish beliefs inspired? They deny the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, salvation by grace, that OT prophecies refer to Jesus Christ, etc, etc, etc. Jesus said the Pharisees were of their father the devil. Evidently you can't make your case from the inspired Scriptures, so you rely on uninspired Jewish speculations about Scripture, Jewish horror tales, myths, etc. Jesus quoted from the Scriptures as being authitative, not the traditions of men that oppose the Word of God.

Evidently you don't have any idea what a lexicon or concordance is or how they are created. Since you blew them off as "opinion." Do you know what "peer reviewed" means? Legitimate, reliable publishers do not print just anything somebody writes. Subject matter writings such as lexicons, concordances etc. are submitted to subject matter experts for review. Publishers must do this to protect their reputation. They would not stay in business long if they printed everything somebody sent to them. On the other hand the stuff you link to, such as Beauchamin, is not peer reviewed just a bunch of UR folkse scribbling out their opinions

It was you who said "Irrelevant not scripture.". Are you now arguing that what is not scripture is relevant? IOW, are you double-minded? Or are you putting lexicons & scholarly opinions on an equal level to inspired Scripture? You do realize that scholars disagree amongst themselves just as do laymen? So which scholar should you place blind faith in? Or should you pray & ask the Teacher, the Lord Jesus, to enlighten you, instead of looking to men (e.g. uninspired Jews) for worldly wisdom?

Irrelevant not scripture.

Eminent lexicographer John A. L. Lee, in his book "A History of New Testament Lexicography" (2014), which has been well reviewed by his peers, points out many errors in BDAG & how lexicons have often blindly copied from one another, including their mistakes.

"Baldwin’s use of the lexicons as authoritative raises the question: Do the lexicons provide authoritative boundaries for the meaning and glosses of αὐθεντέω in the various contexts? Lee, Nida and Louw are agreed that the answer is ‘no’, not only for αὐθεντέω, but in general. Lee asserts, ‘The body of attestations accumulated in the lexicons has reached its greatest extent yet. But because of the ways it has been gathered there is an inherent unreliability’ (Lee, Lexicography, p. 124). Nida and Louw write: ‘We must not assume that the English glosses in a Greek–English lexicon can provide accurate information about the designative and associative meanings of a Greek term’ (Nida and Louw, Lexical Semantics, p. 59)"
http://jgrchj.net/volume10/JGRChJ10-7_Westfall.pdf

"No one has drawn more attention to the methodological issues and, well, let's face, flaws, in our New Testament Greek lexicons that John A. L. Lee. In a good summary statement of the state of affairs of our lexicons, Lee says "The concise, seemingly authoritative statement of meaning can, and often does, conceal many sins - indecision, compromise, imperfect knowledge, guesswork, and, above all, dependence on predecessors."

Lee is quoted again: "...NT lexicons are contaminated by glosses from the standard translations, going back as far as the Vulgate."

Advances in the Study of Greek

"The first three chapters chronicle the three leading characteristics of the NT lexicographical tradition: reliance on predecessors, employment of the gloss method, and dependence on versions. Lee demonstrates how lexicographers in their choice of glosses frequently drew on the rendering of a given word in current translations and shows the chain of development from the KJV to Tyndale, from Tyndale to Luther, and from Luther via Erasmus to the Vulgate. He also points to the limitations of the gloss method and advocates a definition approach instead... Hence even BDAG (2000) is but the last in a series of works with a long, checkered pedigree that should now give way to new efforts..."

http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/47/47-3/47-3-pp481-547_JETS.pdf

The Curious Case of Gerhard Kittel, the Nazi lexicographer:
The Curious Case of Gerhard Kittel

Myth: Biblical Reference Works Are Objective
Myth: Biblical Reference Works Are Objective (Gupta)

" Lee goes on to say that lexicographical work in Greek – especially the vocabulary of the LXX – is far from over not just in terms of demand, but in terms of accuracy. There is a huge amount of sources not yet incorporated into our understanding of Koine Greek. Undertaking exhaustive and integrative analysis of this body of language is therefore essential to interpreting Scripture rightly." Lexicography for the Church

"Recent studies have...demonstrated the inadequacies of many of the standard Greek lexicons, including Bauer & Dankers:"

Christian Identity in Corinth: A Comparative Study of 2 Corinthians ...By V. Henry T. Nguyen

Christian Identity in Corinth

I have been at this forum for almost 2 decades. I think the present owner is the third one since I've been here. I learned a long time ago that most hard core heterodox are almost impossible to reach. So I am primarily posting for those on the fence either thinking about joining or leaving such groups.

What matters is what is Scriptural, not labelled "orthodox" or "hereodox". Re universalism as arguably a majority view at times in the early church:

Church Fathers & Universalism since Early Church times

 

[Viren]

The lake of fire is not the Lord, the Lord is not the lake of fire. The unrepentant are thrown into the LOF. While the LOF is called "the second death" not one verse says anything/anyone is thrown into the LOF then they die. In fact, one verse says three living beings, one the false prophet is a human, are thrown into the LOF, they do not die but are tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

Revelation is a highly symbolic book. For example, death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire. Also, there are hundreds of verses throughout the Bible that speak of the destruction of the ungodly. Those verses should be considered when interpreting this verse.

 

[Micah888]

Revelation is a highly symbolic book. For example, death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire.

Yes, Death and Hades are personified in Revelation -- even seen riding on a pale horse -- but that does not nullify the eternal reality and torments of the Lake of Fire.

What is means is that death -- the last enemy -- will not exist any longer on earth (seeing that that will be a New Heavens and a New Earth after the Great White Throne judgment.)

Similarly Hades -- the present abode of the unsaved dead (souls and spirit) -- will be abolished, since there will be no more unsaved dead.

Also, there are hundreds of verses throughout the Bible that speak of the destruction of the ungodly. Those verses should be considered when interpreting this verse.

Yes the words "destroy", "destruction" and "perished" are certainly used for the ungodly. But they must be properly interpreted in view of the existence of the Lake of Fire.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words
Destroy, Destroyer, Destruction, Destructive

A — 1: ἀπόλλυμι
(Strong's #622 — Verb — apollumi — ap-ol'-loo-mee )
a strengthened form of ollumi, signifies "to destroy utterly;" in Middle Voice, "to perish." The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being. This is clear from its use, as, e.g., of the marring of wine skins, Luke 5:37 ; of lost sheep, i.e., lost to the shepherd, metaphorical of spiritual destitution, Luke 15:4,6 , etc.; the lost son, Luke 15:24 ; of the perishing of food, John 6:27 ; of gold, 1 Peter 1:7 . So of persons, Matthew 2:13 , "destroy;" Matthew 8:25 , "perish;" Matthew 22:7 ;27:20 ; of the loss of well-being in the case of the unsaved hereafter, Matthew 10:28 ; Luke 13:3,5 ; John 3:16 (ver. 15 in some mss.); 10:28; 17:12; Romans 2:12 ; 1 Corinthians 15:18 ; 2 Corinthians 2:15 , "are perishing;" 2 Corinthians 4:3 ; 2 Thessalonians 2:10 ; James 4:12 ; 2 Peter 3:9 . Cp. B, II, No. 1. See DIE , LOSE , MARRED ,PERISH.

Perish
ἀπόλλυμι

(Strong's #622 — Verb — apollumi — ap-ol'-loo-mee )
"to destroy," signifies, in the Middle Voice, "to perish," and is thus used (a) of things, e.g., Matthew 5:29,30 ; Luke 5:37 ; Acts 27:34 , RV, "perish" (in some texts pipto, "to fall," as AV); Hebrews 1:11 ; 2 Peter 3:6 ; Revelation 18:14 (2nd part), RV, "perished" (in some texts aperchomai, "to depart," as AV); (b) of persons, e.g., Matthew 8:25 ; John 3:15,16 ; 10:28 ; 17:12 , RV, "perished" (AV, "is lost"); Romans 2:12 ; 1 Corinthians 1:18 , lit., "the perishing," where the perfective force of the verb implies the completion of the process of destruction (Moulton, Proleg., p. 114); 1 Corinthians 8:11 ; 15:18 ; 2 Peter 3:9 ; Jude 1:11 . For the meaning of the word see DESTROY , No. 1.

Annihilationism is false doctrine.

 

[Der Alte]

Revelation is a highly symbolic book. For example, death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire. Also, there are hundreds of verses throughout the Bible that speak of the destruction of the ungodly. Those verses should be considered when interpreting this verse.

This is a common ploy for all heterodox religious groups. When scripture as written disproves one of their pet doctrines simply dismiss it as what I call SPAM-Fig, symbolic, poetic, allegory, metaphor, figurative. There is an old maxim for interpreting the Bible, "If the plain sense, makes good sense, it is nonsense to seek any other sense." For example, we know that trees don't rejoice and hills don't skip so those references are probably figurative. But we have no personal knowledge about what happens in the afterlife so we cannot dismiss everything we don't understand as figurative.

 

[Der Alte]

begin

Yes, Death and Hades are personified in Revelation -- even seen riding on a pale horse -- but that does not nullify the eternal reality and torments of the Lake of Fire.

What is means is that death -- the last enemy -- will not exist any longer on earth (seeing that that will be a New Heavens and a New Earth after the Great White Throne judgment.)

Similarly Hades -- the present abode of the unsaved dead (souls and spirit) -- will be abolished, since there will be no more unsaved dead.

Yes the words "destroy", "destruction" and "perished" are certainly used for the ungodly. But they must be properly interpreted in view of the existence of the Lake of Fire.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words
Destroy, Destroyer, Destruction, Destructive

A — 1: ἀπόλλυμι
(Strong's #622 — Verb — apollumi — ap-ol'-loo-mee )
a strengthened form of ollumi, signifies "to destroy utterly;" in Middle Voice, "to perish." The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being. This is clear from its use, as, e.g., of the marring of wine skins, Luke 5:37 ; of lost sheep, i.e., lost to the shepherd, metaphorical of spiritual destitution, Luke 15:4,6 , etc.; the lost son, Luke 15:24 ; of the perishing of food, John 6:27 ; of gold, 1 Peter 1:7 . So of persons, Matthew 2:13 , "destroy;" Matthew 8:25 , "perish;" Matthew 22:7 ;27:20 ; of the loss of well-being in the case of the unsaved hereafter, Matthew 10:28 ; Luke 13:3,5 ; John 3:16 (ver. 15 in some mss.); 10:28; 17:12; Romans 2:12 ; 1 Corinthians 15:18 ; 2 Corinthians 2:15 , "are perishing;" 2 Corinthians 4:3 ; 2 Thessalonians 2:10 ; James 4:12 ; 2 Peter 3:9 . Cp. B, II, No. 1. See DIE , LOSE , MARRED ,PERISH.

Perish
ἀπόλλυμι

(Strong's #622 — Verb — apollumi — ap-ol'-loo-mee )
"to destroy," signifies, in the Middle Voice, "to perish," and is thus used (a) of things, e.g., Matthew 5:29,30 ; Luke 5:37 ; Acts 27:34 , RV, "perish" (in some texts pipto, "to fall," as AV); Hebrews 1:11 ; 2 Peter 3:6 ; Revelation 18:14 (2nd part), RV, "perished" (in some texts aperchomai, "to depart," as AV); (b) of persons, e.g., Matthew 8:25 ; John 3:15,16 ; 10:28 ; 17:12 , RV, "perished" (AV, "is lost"); Romans 2:12 ; 1 Corinthians 1:18 , lit., "the perishing," where the perfective force of the verb implies the completion of the process of destruction (Moulton, Proleg., p. 114); 1 Corinthians 8:11 ; 15:18 ; 2 Peter 3:9 ; Jude 1:11 . For the meaning of the word see DESTROY , No. 1.

Annihilationism is false doctrine.

end

Here is a study I did on the same word.
ἀπόλλυμι/Apollumi occurs 90 times in the NT, of this 68 times, 76%, it cannot mean the destruction/annihilation which some argue supposedly occurs at the final judgment. Here is a list of those meanings.
(1) ruin, (2) do not bring about his ruin, (3) put to death, the wicked tenants, (4) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death, (5) destroy the wisdom of the wise, (6) destroy the understanding, (7) lose, (8) lose the reward, (9) lose what we have worked for, (10) lose one’s life, (11) lose oneself, (12) The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it’), (13) ruined, (14) die, the man dies, (15) As a cry of anguish, we are perishing!, (16) of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer, (17) die by the sword, (18) die of hunger, (19) be corrupted, (20) killed by the snakes, (21) those who are lost, (22) of things be lost, (23) pass away, (24) be ruined, (26) of bursting wineskins, (25) fading beauty, (26) transitory beauty of gold, (27) passing splendor, (28) Of earthly food, (29) spoiled honey, (30) Of falling hair, (31) a member or organ of the body, (32) remnants of food, (33) of wine that has lost its flavor, (34) of sheep gone astray, (35) Of a lost son [that returned].

ἀπόλλυμι for its conj. s. Bl-D. §101 ( s.v. o[llumi ); Rob. 317; fut. ajpolevsw Hs 8, 7, 5, Att. ajpolw` 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14 ); 1 aor. ajpwvlesa ; 1 pf. ajpolwvleka ; fut. mid. ajpolou`mai Lk 13:3 ; 2 aor. ajpwlovmhn ; the 2 pf. ajpovlwla serves as a pf. mid ., ptc. ajpolwlwv" ( Hom. +; inscr. , pap. , LXX , En. , Philo , Joseph. , Test. 12 Patr. ).

1. act .— a. ruin, destroy.
a. of pers. (Sir 10:3 ) Mk 1:24 ; Lk 4:34 . W. ref. to eternal destruction mh; ejkei`non ajpovllue do not bring about his ruin Ro 14:15 . Esp. kill, put to death (Gen 20:4 ; Esth 9:6 v.l .; 1 Macc 2:37 ; Jos. , C. Ap. 1, 122) Hs 9, 26, 7. paidivon Mt 2:13 ; Jesus 12:14 ; 27:20 ; Mk 3:6 ; 11:18 ; Lk 19:47 ; B 12:5; [kill] the wicked tenants kakou;" kakw`" aj. ( s. kakov" 1a) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death Mt 21:41 . tou;" gewrgouv" Mk 12:9 ; Lk 20:16 ; t. fonei`" Mt 22:7 ; t. mh; pisteuvsanta" those who did not believe Jd 5 ; pavnta" Lk 17:27 , 29 . W. sw`sai (1ike Charito 2, 8, 1) Js 4:12 ; Hs 9, 23, 4. Of eternal death ( Herm. Wr. 4, 7) yuch;n k. sw`ma aj. ejn geevnnh/ Mt 10:28; yuchvn B 20:1; t. yucav" Hs 9, 26,3 (cf.Sir 20:22).
b. w. impers. obj. aj. t. sofivan t. sofw`n destroy the wisdom of the wise 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14 ). aj. t. diavnoian destroy the understanding Hm 11:1.— g. without obj. J 10:10 .
b. lose ( X. , Pla. +; PPetr. III 51, 5; POxy. 743, 23; PFay. 111, 3 ff ; Sir 6:3 ; 9:6 ; 27:16 et al .; Tob 7:6 BA; 4 Macc 2:14 ) t. misqovn lose the reward Mt 10:42 ; Mk 9:41 ; Hs 5, 6, 7. dracmhvn ( Dio Chrys. 70[20], 25) Lk 15:8 f ; aj. a} hjrgasavmeqa lose what we have worked for 2J 8 . diaqhvkhn B 4:6, 8. th;n zwh;n t. ajnqrwvpwn Hm 2:1; cf. s 8, 6, 6; 8, 7, 5; 8, 8, 2 f and 5. th;n ejlpivda m 5, 1, 7.— W . colloqu. flavor i{na pa`n o} devdwkevn moi mhv ajpolevsw ejx aujtou` that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me J 6:39 ( Bl-D. §466, 3; Rob. 437; 753).— aj. th;n yuchvn ( cf. Sir 20:22 ) lose one’s life Mt 10:39 ; 16:25 ; Mk 8:35 ; Lk 9:24 ; 17:33 ; cf. J 12:25 . For this aj. eJautovn lose oneself Lk 9:25 (similar in form is Tyrtaeus Lyr. [VII BC ], fgm. 8 Diehl 2 lines 12 ff : ‘The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it’).
2. mid .— a. be destroyed, ruined.
a. of pers. perish, die ( schol. on Nicander , Ther. 188 ajpovllutai oJ ajnhvr =the man dies) 1 Cl 51:5; 55:6; B 5:4, 12; D 16:5; Hs 6, 2, 1 f. As a cry of anguish ajpolluvmeqa we are perishing! ( PPetr. II 4, 4 nuni; de; ajpolluvmeqa ) Mt 8:25 ; Mk 4:38 ; Lk 8:24 ( Arrian , Peripl. 3, 3 of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer). ejn macaivrh/ aj. die by the sword Mt 26:52 . limw`/ [die] of hunger (Ezk 34:29 ) Lk 15:17 . th`/ ajntilogiva/ tou` Kovre Jd 11 c (because of 11a and b it should perh. = be corrupted; cf. Polyb. 32, 23, 6). uJpo; tino" ( Hdt. 5. 126; Dio Chrys. 13[7], 12) uJpo; t. o[fewn killed by the snakes 1 Cor 10:9 ; cf. vs. 1 0. Abs. of a people perish J 11:50 . Of individuals (Lev 23:30 ) Ac 5:37 ; 2 Pt 3:9 ; 1 Cl 12:6; 39:5 (Job 4:20 ).—Esp. of eternal death ( cf. Ps 9:6 f ; 36:20; 67:3 ; 91:10 ; Is 41:11 ) J 3:16 ; 17:12 . ajpolevsqai eij" to;n aijw`na perish forever 10:28 (Bar 3:3 hJmei`" ajpolluvmenoi to;n aijw`na). ajnovmw" aj. Ro 2:12 ; mwrw`" aj. IEph 17:2; ejn kauchvsei because of boasting ITr 4:1; cf. IPol 5:2. Abs. 1 Cor 8:11 ; 15:18 ; 2 Cl 17:1.— oiJ ajpolluvmenoi ( opp. oiJ sw/zovmenoi , like Plut. , Mor. 469 D ) those who are lost 1 Cor 1:18 ; 2 Cor 2:15 ; 4:3 ; 2 Th 2:10 ; 2 Cl 1:4; 2:5. For this to; ajpolwlov" Lk 19:10 (Mt 18:11 —Ezk 34:4 , 16 ). ta; ajpolluvmena 2 Cl 2:7 ( cf. Dit., Syll. 3 417, 9 ta; te ajpolwlovta ejk t. iJerou` ajnevswsan ). b. of things be lost, pass away, be ruined ( Jos. , Bell. 2, 650 of Jerusalem) of bursting wineskins Mk 9:17 ; Mk 2:22 ; Lk 5:37 ; fading beauty Js 1:11 ; transitory beauty of gold 1 Pt 1:7 ; passing splendor Rv 18:14 ( w. ajpov as Jer 10:11 ; Da 7:17 ). Of earthly food J 6:27 ; spoiled honey Hm 5, 1, 5. Of the heavens which, like the earth, will pass away Hb 1:11 (Ps 101:27 ). Of the end of the world Hv 4, 3, 3, Of the way of the godless, which is lost in darkness B 11:7 (Ps 1:6 ).
b. be lost (Antipho 54 Diels, Vorsokrat. ajpolovmenon ajrguvrion ; X. , Symp. 1, 5; 1 Km 9:3 ) ISm 10:1. Of falling hair Lk 21:18 ; Ac 27:34 ; a member or organ of the body Mt 5:29 f ; remnants of food J 6:12
. Of wine that has lost its flavor Hm 12, 5, 3.—Of sheep gone astray Mt 10:6 ; 15:24 ; Lk 15:4 , 6 ; B 5:12 ( cf. Jer 27:6 ; Ezk 34:4 ; Ps 118:176 ). Of a lost son [who has returned]Lk 15:24 ( Artem. 4, 33 hJ gunhv. . . t. uiJo;n ajpwvlese kai. . . eu|ren aujtovn .—JSchniewind, D. Gleichn. vom verl. Sohn ’40). aj. qew`/ be lost to God Hs 8, 6, 4. M-M. B. 758; 766.
BAG Greek Lexicon online​

 

[1 John 4:1]

Don't know if this will be useful to anyone but there is a summary on this topic I wrote a while back: http://compassionandcommunity.org/2/ (apologies for the lack of formatting)

"In fact, one verse says three living beings, one the false prophet is a human, are thrown into the LOF, they do not die but are tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Here's a relevant section:

At first glance, you may see a problem for my argument especially when paired with the previously mentioned Matthew 25

Matthew 25:41
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
... 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

However, observe that the devil and his angles aren't nessesarilly made of the same stuff as others. Hence, they may indeed be tormented forever but others may be consumed instantly. In addition this is an expounding upon revelation 14:9-11 and not describing something new really so we can't read something contradictory to Revelation 14 here. (read Revelation 19:17-20:10 to see the parallel) This is similar to how Revelation 18:1-19:3 expounds upon Revelation 14:8. Also it says the beast, the false prophet, and the devil are tormented, and the beast is probably an abstract concept such as an empire, or a world system. (using the metaphors of beasts in the book of Daniel) So the implication here is that the torment may be abstract as well, and/or a hyperbole for destruction. (you'll have to read the other parts of the document for all this to make sense just thought I'd post an excerpt)

Also Jude isn't the only way to notice that the torment isn't eternal "eternal fire" (relating to sodom and gomorah) You can also look at revelation 14, and the fact that the smoke of Babylon in Rev 18:18 and 19:3 is described as rising for ever:

Revelation 14
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”


While their torment is continual here, it does not specify how long a duration it is. The smoke rises forever, but that is metaphorical language also used elsewhere. See for example the paralel description in Revelation 18:18 and Revelaion 19:3, the smoke of Babylon is described in both places to be rising forever even though babylon is ultimately destroyed, and doesn't burn forever. The smoke could symbolize a hyperbole that the destruction was so great that the smoke rises forever or that it symbolizes an eternal rememberance of the destruction by the smoke being an eternal memorial. The lake of fire (which this may refer to) is probably a real place near the Tigres river that had underwater volcanic activity and hotsprings that burned bodies cast into them. In addition the fire here is used metaphorically. Look at:

Revelation 21.4--There will be no more
mourning or crying or pain, for the old
order of things has passed away.

In fact Revelation 14 is a quote from Isaiah 34:9-10 about the judgement of Edom:

Isaiah 34
9Its streams shall be turned into pitch,
And its dust into brimstone;
Its land shall become burning pitch.
10 It shall not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke shall ascend forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
No one shall pass through it forever and ever.

And this verse relates this future Judgement of Edom to the overthrow of sodom and Gomorah:

Jeremiah 49
17 “Edom also shall be an astonishment;
Everyone who goes by it will be astonished
And will hiss at all its plagues.
18 As in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah
And their neighbors,” says the Lord,
“No one shall remain there,
Nor shall a son of man dwell in it.

Deuteronomy 29
23 ‘The whole land is brimstone, salt, and burning; it is not sown, nor does it bear, nor does any grass grow there, like the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim, which the Lord overthrew in His anger and His wrath.’

Genesis 19
24 Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 So He overthrew those cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground.

The reason I point this out, is that Sodom and Gomorah is said to be destroyed by eternal fire:

Jude 1
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

One way to resolve this problem of "why aren't the fires of Sodom still burning?" is to say that the fire is not actually eternal, but infact a metaphor for eternal consumption. Sodom and Gomorah were destroyed, and that destruction was eternal (the people never came back or were revived), it was consumed, and that consumption wasn't reversed (eternal consumption). That is why I think it is said to be destroyed by eternal metaphorical fire or... eternal consumption.

 

[DeaconDean]

My problem with the theory of "Annihilationism" is this: Where is the motivation to be saved?

As an former EMT, I know that no matter the pain, a person can endure anything as long as their is a hope from release from pain.

So, where is the motivation to be saved? No matter what, if I knew , "for a fact" this theory was true, why not just live your life as you please?

If I knew that after a century, or a couple of centuries, or even a few millennia, that after my "sin debt" would be "paid in full", and I'd be allowed to "burn up", and escape the "eternal punishment" that is inherent there, just live your life any way you want. After all, sooner or later, you'll burn up into nothing, and escape.

Annihilationism provides an "escape clause".

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[1 John 4:1]

@DeaconDean I personally like existing. I think it's interesting. Not existing would be the lack of experience. I think having experience is cool over all. That's just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[DeaconDean]

@DeaconDean I personally like existing. I think it's interesting. Not existing would be the lack of experience. I think having experience is cool over all. That's just my thoughts on the matter.

Here, I inject what JW's have always believed.

There belief hinges on the Greek word "aeon". (Basically, just an undeterminate amount of time)

That is why I said what I did.

If this doctrine is true, there is no clear cut motivation to be saved in the first place. Sure, living on a planet, being a "god" and having children is well and fine. And if your lucky enough to among the 144,000 that are entitled to be in the presence of God.

But if not, why be saved to begin with?

If I broke my arm, and the paramedics came, and took me to the hospital, I know for a fact that very briefly, the pain would go away. The same with this doctrine.

If I go to the "Lake of Fire" and have to spend "x" amount of time there, if I know the pain will end sooner or later, I can endure it.

That is the fruit of that doctrine.

Just saying.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[1 John 4:1]

@DeaconDean I'm not a JW so I wouldn't know I think that those who are saved will have eternal life but the people who are lost will probably cease to exist. (although I think it's pretty hard to interpret the rich symbolism that is in the Bible about that, it wasn't clearly written and I think it's something we can speculate about but that we won't really know until we get there) Deuteronomy 29:29