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Animals that or things that defy evolution

Discussion in 'Creationism' started by mathinspiration, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. mathinspiration

    mathinspiration Member

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    I heard that there are animals that defy evolution such as the giraffes. There are things are that defy evolution such as why there are females or why higher supposed evolve creatures have evolved developed two different genders?
    I have my own theory. It is based on our common old enemy: crocodile. There have been recent studies and fossils that show them evolving their teeth and jaws, but not why they can’t chew meats? It shows unintelligent design or maybe they weren’t suppose to eat meat? If God design all animals to be vegans, the crocodile wouldn’t need to change or evolve since it dismembers his prey apart by rolling around.
     
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  2. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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  3. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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  4. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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    I don't understand your question. :)
     
  5. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    Are such examples meant: to bolster fellow Christians; convince unbelievers; promote better science for medicine, agriculture, etc.; just because you're curious?
     
  6. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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    The article I linked to gives examples of animals that the OP mentioned. They show that Darwinian evolution is scientifically impossible.
     
  7. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    That doesn't really answer the question as to why you want to show evolution is scientifically impossible.

    Regardless, I doubt the examples show that. Just to be clear, I don't accept evolution, but there's a lot of misinformation spread in the name of creationism that doesn't help the situation.
     
  8. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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    Did you read the article I posted a link to?

    Edit: Why do I want to show that evolution is scientifically impossible? Because God gives us the real and truthful account of how HE created the universe. Darwinian evolution doesn't represent how He said He did it. We really can trust the biblical account.
     
  9. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    Yes. It's called an argument from incredulity, the idea being to amaze someone such that they think the alternative is impossible. It's an emotional argument, not a scientific one.

    The natural world does indeed show all kinds of amazing works of God, and studying them can be a means to strengthening our faith. I'm not saying you should avoid discussing such things with people, but I think it's best if one realizes the essence of the discussion. If that works for people, great. But it's not a scientific discussion, and claiming such would be an error. It won't impress people who are looking for a scientific discussion; in fact they might dismiss you as ignorant (I'm not saying you are).

    I do trust the Biblical account. But it's not a scientific account; it's a historical account. If I tell you I drove a car to work today that is true and accurate, but it doesn't give you the science about how cars work. Just because something lacks scientific detail doesn't make it false.

    So, you have a true account of the creation. If you know that, you don't have a personal need to prove it to yourself. So I expect you're trying to convince someone else. Who? ... But maybe I've pushed that point enough. I don't want to overdo it and frustrate you. My point would simply be that when trying to convince other people, you need to speak their language. It's not about arguments you find convincing, but arguments they find convincing.
     
  10. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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    I appreciate it that you don't want to frustrate me. :)

    I don't see this thread as a debate on evolution. The article addresses the comments of the OP. I think they're fascinating. God is fascinating!
     
  11. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    Cool. I love learning new things.

    Indeed. Sometimes it overwhelms me. I'm a very analytical person, so people sometimes think I am emotionally cold. That saddens me, because I can't be what I'm not. I don't think it would be right to fake emotions I don't have, and I do my best to express myself to my family.

    There is something in mathematics called "elegance". It's different than the normal meaning of grace and style. It means more a simple, subtle perfection. Mathematicians take it as evidence of mathematical truth. When I see that elegance in God's creation I'm amazed to the point of being speechless, which makes it odd people think I have no emotions. The people around me, however, think that is weird - a mechanistic view that strips creation of its beauty. Oh well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019 at 12:54 PM
  12. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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    This is very interesting. I've never heard this.

    We think of mathematics as being so concrete, and yet I believe that certain aspects of mathematics reflect the nature of God. For instance, I believe pi reflects His infinite nature.
     
  13. Lost4words

    Lost4words Like a puppy, i need guidance. Supporter

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    I once knew an old crocodile. He told me his dentures kept falling out and now he survives on road kill milkshakes!
     
  14. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    Now you did it. I could talk all day about this. You have to get into higher mathematics before you see how it's not as concrete as many believe. I'm an engineer & historian, but my father is a mathematician. He taught me a lot.

    There's a fascinating philosopher of mathematics named Hartry Field, and he wrote a book called "Science Without Numbers". He tries to demonstrate that science doesn't need the mathematical concept of number. It's pretty cool, though I don't think he accomplishes what he wanted. It's an ongoing debate in the philosophies of math & science: Is "number" necessarily embedded in the physical?

    I think there's a good argument to say it is necessary, and that necessity implies an infinite mind. So, I'm basically agreeing with you ... however it's a rather impossible step for us to go from "infinite mind" to Christ. Some of the great philosophers (Plato, Descartes) put together good arguments for it, but never found that last step.
     
  15. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    Squirrel!
     
  16. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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    I'm an English teacher, not a mathematician, but I have dealt with some higher math and physics problems as a homeschool mom. What starts out very concrete (i.e. math facts) does get pretty abstract.

    Hmm, math without numbers? In my thinking, that's like English without words.
     
  17. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    It does.

    Well, science without numbers, not math without numbers. Field introduces some fascinating concepts regarding how to do it, and manages to solve some simple science problems. At the end of the book my first reaction was, "Well, maybe, but it's extremely impractical. Numbers are much more efficient."

    The English equivalent might be communication without words, e.g. pictures or music ... and then we can argue whether pictures & music are or are not words. That was my second reaction to Field's book after giving it more thought. Maybe these aren't traditional number concepts, but has he really eliminated number completely?

    My dad's specialty is geometry, and he loves the Greeks. Indeed the Greeks did amazing things without our Western algebraic mindset. I think I have a deeper understanding of mathematics from studying Greeks like Pythagoras and Archimedes than I would have obtained from sticking exclusively to Newton et. al. (though I think Newton was brilliant ... oh, and Euler's Identity is the most elegant equation I've ever seen ... but still, those Greeks).
     
  18. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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    Of course it's science, not math.

    I see. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but a picture cannot necessarily replace words. I don't think we could function very well without words or numbers.

    I think you're making my brain work too hard! lol
     
  19. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Active Member

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    Why is it "unintelligent" design that crocodiles do not chew meat but instead rip the prey apart and swallow to meat ? It seems to get the job done just fine.
     
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