Angry at God due to the bureaucracy of the Orthodox Church

[rusmeister]

Hey, TLC!
Your feelings are totally legit. You seem to be experiencing a lot earlier in your “career” what I have experienced for the past few years as a member since ‘03, I was accepted instantly with no catechumenate. Who knows why? I do know that you have to grasp both that the teachings of the Church are true and that people, and bureaucracies made up of people, suck eggs, of whom I am chief, and their membership or lack thereof doesn’t in itself change that. Yes, over time we might defeat some old sins, and become objectively better, while, paradoxically, subjectively (and rightly!) seeing ourselves become worse (the principle of the dirty glass taken from the dark cellar, where it didn’t look so dirty, into the sunlight).

A lot of members believe and do weird things that are pretty incompatible with Orthodoxy, and most often, you won’t see anyone correcting them. That doesn’t change the fact that the teaching and practices point to the Way, the Truth, and the Life. And remember that at some points we may see that we have believed or done wrong things, and need to change to align with THAT.

Feelings are far more likely to pull you away from the Church than reason or intelligence. That’s where Lewis’s words in “Mere Christianity” come in handy:

“When we exhort people to Faith as a virtue, to the settled intention of continuing to believe certain things, we are not exhorting them to fight against reason. The intention of continu- ing to believe is required because, though Reason is divine, human reasoners are not. When once passion takes part in the game, the human reason, unassisted by Grace, has about as much chance of retaining its hold on truths already gained as a snowflake has of retaining its consistency in the mouth of a blast furnace. The sort of arguments against Orthodox Christianity which our reason can be persuaded to accept at the moment of yielding to temptation are often preposterous. Reason may win truths; without Faith she will retain them just so long as Satan pleases. There is nothing we cannot be made to believe or disbelieve. If we wish to be rational, not now and then, but constantly, we must pray for the gift of Faith, for the power to go on believing not in the teeth of reason but in the teeth of lust and terror and jealousy and boredom and indifference that which reason, authority, or experience, or all three, have once delivered to us for truth.”

 

[Lukaris]

It is sad to hear that in some parishes inquirers can be treated shabbily. I have also seen a parish try to do right & suffer abuse for it. I pray that those who want to do good will be matched & that the foolish & abusive find repentance.

 

[TheLostCoin]

A person's politics doesn't make them less deserving than you, forgive me if I'm wrong here (I may not know enough about your faith) but in the end, the only politics that matter are the politics of His Kingdom that we are a part of when we receive Him. That's what matters, it's all about Christ.

I'm rather flexible as of lately when it comes to political opinions (for better or for worse, probably worse), but there comes a certain point where certain political opinions are so undoubtedly immoral I don't think any legitimate follower of Christ could follow that.

I don't think that one can be a true follower of Christ and be a Nazi, nor could one be a Marxist.
And I know that in this age of toxic political dialogue, the term "Marxist" and "Fascist" is often used towards left-winging and right-winging ideas, respectively, but this dude said some horribly anti-Semitic (truly anti-Semitic, not just like anti-Israel) and white-supremacist garbage.

 

[E.C.]

And it perpetuates this idea that, in light of not being an Orthodox ethnicity, I don't belong. And I wonder if this impression is for a reason. Maybe God doesn't want me to join. Maybe I was born not to belong there.

After all, joining the Church has been a mess, and people who are ethnic clearly don't want me there. Even now a Greek acquaintance of mine treats me as a second-class citizen as if I don't understand Orthodox liturgies, like I don't know what the Good Friday Liturgy or Pascha is.
And it's been revealed to me that part of my motivation (not completely, but part) for joining Orthodoxy has been me trying to run away from my own problems. So I wonder what's even the point.

I'm curious, what jurisdiction was the first priest from? And, what's your prior religious background?

I ask because there are some jurisdictions that are more strict about receiving converts than others. And there are some jurisdictions that are more notorious for being <insert ethnic group here> first, and Orthodox second. I say this because there is a bishop on the East Coast USA who flat out told the Greeks at an OCF meeting that there's no point in them being a part of OCF if they can't even do Greek dancing. Idiot. There are also jurisdictions that have different guidelines for becoming Orthodox depending on where you're coming from. For example, sometimes it may take less time for a Roman Catholic to convert than say, an Evangelical.

Yes, sometimes the priest is just as flawed as the rest of us. A lot of times the laity forget that priests are humans too (I'm sure ArmyMatt can vouch for that a hundred times over) and I hate to say it, but I've run into bad priests myself. They do exist. It sucks. One refused to give my stepmom Communion, even after she and my dad had their church wedding, because "it didn't look right" that my brother and I were living with her while my dad was working on the other side of the country even though there were couples who were known to be living in sin before getting married that did receive Communion all the freaking time (they weren't discreet at all). Is it right? No. Is there any benefit to dwelling on it? No. Did a nice long talk with my bishop about this priest's treatment of my family prevent me from leaving the Church? Yes, because that bishop is awesome.

St John Chrysostom once said, "The road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests and the bishops are the lampposts lighting the way". The reason why, is that because bishops and priests are supposed to be guiding the rest of us in the spiritual life, they have a much greater responsibility and will be held much more accountable when the time of judgment comes.


That all said, it's a good thing that you left that first parish. It sounds toxic. I would hate to be there. It's okay to feel frustrated, but now that you're at a different parish try to move on and give the new priest a chance. Don't dwell on that last place.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

A lot of members believe and do weird things that are pretty incompatible with Orthodoxy, and most often, you won’t see anyone correcting them. That doesn’t change the fact that the teaching and practices point to the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

^^^ This ^^^

Man, this right here is what I have been experiencing.

Good post and thanks for help putting it all in perspective.

.

 

[Markie Boy]

Has anyone ever felt at angry at God due to the bureaucracy of Orthodoxy?

I have been an inquirer into Orthodoxy for more than 2 and a half years, and I am not going to lie, I am spiteful and angry at my prior priest who was in charge at the time. I am still angry and spiteful notsomuch because he was a bad priest, but because it seems to me (it might be innocence, but it certainly seems to me) like he personally did not like me and went out of his way to prevent me from becoming Orthodox insofar as he was able to. By the time I was able to become a Catechumen, I had to move away.

I went to every Catechism class, never missed Liturgy, volunteered at my Orthodox Church's soup kitchen regularly, was actively involved with OCF, etc. etc. However, despite this, after 2 and a half years, he never let me become a Catechumen.

This is despite the fact that one guy, who never went to liturgy, never went to any Catechism course, was admitted to the Catechumenate, and held toxic ideological viewpoints (racism and fascism), within a single year, and became Orthodox.

I also felt there was a large ethnic part of my parish who viewed me as an "outsider" because I was not a traditional Orthodox ethnicity.


Now, I've visited two different Orthodox parishes now that I'm settled in and met with two of the Priests, and both Priests have pretty much told me I'm back to square one and will have to start over.


I'm incredibly angry; I feel like I'm trapped in my own sins and need Confession and the Eucharist to progress. When I was Catholic, while I was far more immature, both Confession and the Sacraments were useful towards my sinlessness, and I miss that.

Anybody went through an analogous experience?

Large church bureaucracy can be down right anti-spiritual. I have and am struggling with same-but-different issues in the Catholic Church.

It's a large institution - and with the wrong people in places of power all kinds of backwards things happen.

I have been snubbed and shunned for being too conservative. At times I doubt that it's necessary for me to be in communion with "that thing" for my salvation.

Many parts of the big institutions are much more carnal and political than spiritual.

 

[Markie Boy]

^^^ This ^^^

Man, this right here is what I have been experiencing.

Good post and thanks for help putting it all in perspective.

.

People doing all kinds of wrong stuff, goofy religious practices, weird charismatic stuff, and supporting moral corruption - with no correction -

Lord I have seen this in spades!!! And shepherds that are more concerned with keeping the peace than preserving the truth and fighting for good.

 

[Andrewn]

Because I believe that it's the Truth, and if it isn't the Truth, it's definitely the closest thing to the Truth.

One can encounter personality and political clashes in any life situation. The solution can be simply to join a different parish or a different EO denomination. Some denominations have mostly 2nd or 3rd generation Americans and are thus less ethnically attached.

 

[Not David]

There is too much caring for what others do, it does not hurt anyone but yourself.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

this dude said some horribly anti-Semitic (truly anti-Semitic, not just like anti-Israel) and white-supremacist garbage.

I truly hope you find your way. It seems that some converts come to Orthodoxy specifically because they think that these type of beliefs are held and promoted within the Church.