[ANGLICANS ONLY] Politics in Church

[SnowyMacie]

What are you thoughts about political issues being brought up in prayers or homilies during the Holy Eucharist or other formal church classes or functions?

For me personally, I grew up in a tradition, or at least church, where anything remotely political was never brought up during service. It was very apolitical. As I grew up and became more exposed, I saw all of these interconnections between Christianity and politics, and it seemed like the appropriate thing to do, but it was still never discussed in my church on Sunday mornings. That was the time to meet God. I was in college the first time that anything political was ever discussed in a sermon or Sunday school class, and this guy who wasn't even teacher or in our age group was in there bringing up politics from a conservative point of view. It came across less as bringing up discussion and more "this is what you should think about this", which rubbed me the wrong way.

There have been other times after graduating college, my college church was even less political (in fact my preacher said he's only ever voted for Jesus and will only ever vote for Jesus), where a prayer or a political issue was brought up in the sermon and it just always makes me uncomfortable, and the rare time a political statement was made, even if I agreed with it, it came across as completely not okay. For example, my parish prays the prayer for the Armed Forces from the BCP every time we pray Prayers of the People. Even though I agree that's it's a good thing to pray for that, it does make me uncomfortable even though I have gotten used to it.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

If by politics, we mean social justice issues like helping refugees, supporting immigrants, praying for stronger welfare services, LGBT+ rights, an end to racism, then, I absolutely think that we, as Christians and as Anglicans, should pray about those issues.

However, if by politics, we mean supporting a particular political party, ideology, or candidate, then, no, I would not support its inclusion in prayer. Some of us prayed for Hillary Clinton to win, some prayed for Trump to win, and others prayed for neither to win. There are Christians who can have legitimately different views about candidates.

 

[Philip_B]

If we are to pray for all sorts and conditions of folk and it has no political edge I wond we if we are being real. The great challenge is to ensure that our faith informs our politics and not the other way around.

So I take it as entirely reasonable to pray about the stewardship of creation and counterproductive to pray for the success of the Greens as party.

 

[Paidiske]

The way I was taught to handle it is that it's fine to comment on policy, but never party or person.

So I can - and sometimes should! - say from the pulpit, "X policy is not compatible with the gospel because Y." But I should never go the further step and say, "So don't vote for the party with that policy," it's up to you to work out how to vote based on your assessment of all the policies of a party and how you weigh them.

For example, the Australian government has a policy of locking up refugees in what amounts to concentration camps. I have denounced that policy as completely not in keeping with a Christian approach to life, and I will again. But how my parishioners respond to that, is up to them.

 

[seeking.IAM]

When I was a kid, I grew annoyed with my dad for his sermons that avoided what I thought were the most important issues of that time. As an adult, I understand the temptation for clergy to tread carefully from the pulpit less they fracture an already fragile congregation.

My church is very diverse, including politically. We have raving liberals and right wing extremists. I fear that too political sermons too often could result in an exodus of too many members (i.e. giving units) adversely affecting sustainability.

Personally, I am in favor of truth-telling from the pulpit just as long as my priest's views align with my own.

 

[Albion]

,,...where a prayer or a political issue was brought up in the sermon and it just always makes me uncomfortable, and the rare time a political statement was made, even if I agreed with it, it came across as completely not okay.

In the Continuing Churches of my acquaintance, I never ever have heard a political sermon. This might strike some people as surprising, given that most members are traditionalists with strong convictions, but that's the way it is.

 

[Edwin627]

It is unavoidable. Since issues like abortion and gay marriage have become political and they have a huge effect on the church, from whichever side you find yourself.

 

[seeking.IAM]

It is unavoidable. Since issues like abortion and gay marriage have become political and they have a huge effect on the church, from whichever side you find yourself.

I have neither heard gay marriage nor abortion spoken about during the liturgy, so it is quite avoidable. Both subjects have come up in discussion groups, however, which has resulted in strongly expressed feelings, which have been divisive -- not in the sense of schism but in the loss of good will among brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Edwin627]

I have neither heard gay marriage nor abortion spoken about during the liturgy, so it is quite avoidable. Both subjects have come up in discussion groups, however, which has resulted in strongly expressed feelings, which have been divisive -- not in the sense of schism but in the loss of good will among brothers and sisters in Christ.

That might be so. But if you regularly attend functions and other extra church socials it's going to come up eventually whether you want it to or not.

 

[Paidiske]

I've never heard or given an Anglican sermon on abortion. I have heard sermons where gay marriage was kind of referenced as an aside.

But those aren't the kind of political issues that tend to be preached on often. Refugee policy, involvement in war, poverty relief, that kind of social justice political issue gets much more pulpit air time, in my experience.

 

[Albion]

It is unavoidable. Since issues like abortion and gay marriage have become political and they have a huge effect on the church, from whichever side you find yourself.

The political application of them is entirely avoidable as sermon topics or the like, however. Even that is a bit of a concession to say, because there are churches in which these topics (to use your examples) never are woven into any sermon.

 

[Paidiske]

But is it always good to avoid them? Should the church not reflect together on them? Is there not a time for the priest to say so, even in a sermon?

 

[Padres1969]

If by politics, we mean social justice issues like helping refugees, supporting immigrants, praying for stronger welfare services, LGBT+ rights, an end to racism, then, I absolutely think that we, as Christians and as Anglicans, should pray about those issues.

However, if by politics, we mean supporting a particular political party, ideology, or candidate, then, no, I would not support its inclusion in prayer. Some of us prayed for Hillary Clinton to win, some prayed for Trump to win, and others prayed for neither to win. There are Christians who can have legitimately different views about candidates.

My view on it as well. The only thing specifically referring to a political candidate at mass IMO should be during the prayers for the people if a prayer is offered for presidents/governors/mayors, etc... Otherwise, specific political candidates and parties should be left at the door. Social justice issues however are a different matter.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

I'd like to know what is meant by a political issue. In my opinion, most issues are political, although not always party political.

A kingdom-focussed fellowship will grab their local political issues by the scruff of the neck and will "go out" and do something. We have so many things in our community where the church is perfectly poised to take action, and we really don't need to rely on local government. The voluntary sector is so mobile in this regard. We don't have the same amount of regulation, slow decision making and accountability.

I don't see how a church fellowship cannot be political as much of politics is looking out for people who can't look after themselves.

As in any polite society, party politics shouldn't really be discussed in public. We have just had a general election, and our intercessions were all about people making Godly choices, etc.

 

[Walsinghsm Way]

Baruch Hashem, y'all

I take a nuanced view. First, I am moving into an intellectual position that sees politics as the art of social virtue, concerned with the good life of the polis -the human community itself- and am naive enough to consider this the pre-modern view as well, certainly Aristotle held politics to be an extension of ethics, whereas the modern, post-Machiavelli view seems to be that politics ia the art of the possible, and the art of power.

Secondly, as a species, mankind is inherently social, thus, political animals, so politics will always be part of our social makeup. This tells me politics is not inherently bad, and I'm certainly no Rosseau to think government is at best a "necessary evil", even of I do think that government has a tendency -if left unchecked- to blur the boundaries between public and private, to seek to regulate and arbitrate every area of individuals' lives.

Thirdly, Our Lord Himself was not overtly 'political' He did not directly address political issues of the day such as the question of the rightness ( morality ) of revolt against the Roman overlords, but did not avoid the question of corporate (social) justice. He did not address political acts so much as political attitudes. And then there's the whole business of "the Kingdom of God" an entirely different political attitude about behavior, and the exhortations in the Epistles to obey "those set over you" as being appointed by God for correction and public order .

And fourthly, to localize the discussion, i know that America has a long history of the pulpit being used to persuade or exhort toward political aims or goals. Just look at how heavily the pulpit was used to justify rebellion from Great Britain; Secessionism and to agitate for or against the question of slavery: and in our own time anti-Communism, and the question of civil rights and basic human dignity along with other political acts such as the legalalization or criminalization of specific behaviors (temperance, abortion, segregation, SSM). It's not something we can get away from.

And then there is the issue of the prohibition of direct political (candidate) endorsement on the part of tax-exempt religious organizations.

This leads me to the conclusion that religion is inherently political, as being composed of humans; that Christianity should be concerned about political order, but that our fundamental stance should be in the order of prayer and on obedience to authority insofar as it doesn't conflict with our commitment to Christ and His Kingdom; that as we live in the world and are touched by political questions, such discussion should not be out of bounds in the Church.

As to the narrower question of politics in the pulpit: The pulpit is primarily for the proclamation of the Gospel : repentance amd salvation, and the living of Christ-honoring lives. This requires instruction, and occasionally, by way of illustration it requires pointing out what is going on in the world and in the community around us. We are after all, embedded in the world for the sake of the Gospel. Political situations are acceptable to hear about from the pulpit, cries for justice and right living, and appeals to conscience are commendable. I draw the line however at outright support or condemnation of individuals.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

If by politics, we mean social justice issues like helping refugees, supporting immigrants, praying for stronger welfare services, LGBT+ rights, an end to racism, then, I absolutely think that we, as Christians and as Anglicans, should pray about those issues.

However, if by politics, we mean supporting a particular political party, ideology, or candidate, then, no, I would not support its inclusion in prayer. Some of us prayed for Hillary Clinton to win, some prayed for Trump to win, and others prayed for neither to win. There are Christians who can have legitimately different views about candidates.

This is my view exactly. I am blessed to belong to a congregation where these sorts of discussions are welcome and do not divide us. Typically, however, these discussions happen in group settings and not from the pulpit.

We do pray for political leaders as part of the Prayers of the People, and I am fine with it.