Angels or Sons of God?

[BeyondET]

And also the daughters of Cain were daughters of God. Same as sons of God.

With help from God, Eve had two sons before Seth

 

[Maria Billingsley]

In Genesis 6:2-7 and Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 The sons of God are mentioned and some are sure these are angels. They say it is unfair to say God created other living planets. It is unfair if God did something as important as that, and then did not tell us. But isn't it unfair if the Bible, and it's authors particularly Moses here, could have used the word angels, or messengers, but instead refers to sons of God? Implying they look

In Genesis 6:2-7 and Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 The sons of God are mentioned and some are sure these are angels. They say it is unfair to say God created other living planets. It is unfair if God did something as important as that, and then did not tell us. But isn't it unfair if the Bible, and it's authors particularly Moses here, could have used the word angels, or messengers, but instead refers to sons of God? Implying they look like God, similar to us?

And Moses could have mentioned demons, angels of death, fallen angels, or evil spirits.

And in Job Satan describes which planet he is from. Why need specify this one?

Hebrews 1 tells us no no angels will be called "son" but they are only ever servants. Outwardly beautiful and inwardly of a servant nature.

The pious are the sons of God. The daughters of men come from outside this circle of people who carry the genealogy of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Blessings.

.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

In Genesis 6:2-7 and Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 The sons of God are mentioned and some are sure these are angels. They say it is unfair to say God created other living planets. It is unfair if God did something as important as that, and then did not tell us. But isn't it unfair if the Bible, and it's authors particularly Moses here, could have used the word angels, or messengers, but instead refers to sons of God? Implying they look like God, similar to us?

And Moses could have mentioned demons, angels of death, fallen angels, or evil spirits.

And in Job Satan describes which planet he is from. Why need specify this one?

Hebrews 1 tells us no no angels will be called "son" but they are only ever servants. Outwardly beautiful and inwardly of a servant nature.

The pious are the sons of God. The daughters of men come from outside this circle of people who carry the genealogy of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The pious are the sons of God. The daughters of men come from outside this circle of people who carry the genealogy of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Genesis 6 and the non pious sons of God come down and the result is the horror of the Nephilim bullying. All of them died. They are a separate group that it is written regarding them, below the Earth, Jesus preached in gloomy dungeons. And yes they were extinct on the surface.

The Nephilim were not descended from Cain in my opinion, not anymore than from Seth. Or really equally from both. They were both fathers of good looking daughters.

In Acts we may read of brothers coming down from Jerusalem, but Cain did not live in Jerusalem by the mount of the Lord. In Genesis Cain was expelled.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Satan walked in the garden of God, not some distant world.

What do you make of Jude's wandering stars, and the planets Mars and Venus. Venus is called the morning star but is a planet reflecting light. A probe landed there.

 

[d taylor]

What do you make of Jude's wandering stars, and the planets Mars and Venus. Venus is called the morning star but is a planet reflecting light. A probe landed there.

What do i make of wandering stars in Jude, i am not sure the word came from (plános) which means.

Definition: wandering, leading astray (adjective), a deceiver (subst.)
Usage: adj: misleading, deceiving, wandering; as subst: a deceiver, imposter.

plános (a substantival adjective, derived from4105 /planáō, "wander") – a deceiver, trying to get others to also veer off God's course (path of safety).

So not sure if this is reference to an actual type of star or a fallen angel. What i do know, it is not a reference to a planet. Why because there is not one single mention anywhere in the Bible of God creating a planet or planets.

Below i have posted three of my personal videos one of venus in focus, one of venus out of focus and a star out of focus. And if a person is observant they can see that the venus out of focus, "behind the swirling mass of light", is the same type of out of focus, type of light pattern that is found on the out of focused star.

Venus in focus

Venus out of focus

A star of of focus

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

What do i make of wandering stars in Jude, i am not sure the word came from (plános) which means.

Definition: wandering, leading astray (adjective), a deceiver (subst.)
Usage: adj: misleading, deceiving, wandering; as subst: a deceiver, imposter.

plános (a substantival adjective, derived from4105 /planáō, "wander") – a deceiver, trying to get others to also veer off God's course (path of safety).

So not sure if this is reference to an actual type of star or a fallen angel. What i do know, it is not a reference to a planet. Why because there is not one single mention anywhere in the Bible of God creating a planet or planets.

Below i have posted three of my personal videos one of venus in focus, one of venus out of focus and a star out of focus. And if a person is observant they can see that the venus out of focus, "behind the swirling mass of light", is the same type of out of focus, type of light pattern that is found on the out of focused star.

Venus in focus

Venus out of focus

A star of of focus

The definition of planos you gave is much full of interpretation.

I add that the Bible is not a complete book covering everything. Regarding cosmology, less than 1%.

 

[d taylor]

The definition of planos you gave is much full of interpretation.

I add that the Bible is not a complete book covering everything. Regarding cosmology, less than 1%.

The only other possibility i can see staying with The Bible only about God's creation. Is that in Jude a wandering star could be what is called a comet by people.

I have never seen one, but as stars have a set movement/course to them, each night i know when the stars like saturn, jupiter, venus will come back around and where they will be. So i do not see this as wandering but that might be what a star (known as a comet does) wanders.

The Bible even states stars have courses.

They fought from the heavens; The stars from their courses fought against Sisera.

 

[SkovandOfMitzae]

The Torah does not even talk about every nation even around Mesopotamia when it was written. It definitely does not mention every known nation and tribe in earth at that time. So there is no reason to presume it needed to mention any other life on another planet or any other dimension or universe.

sons of god is a term , just like heavenly host, to often refer to angels.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The Torah does not even talk about every nation even around Mesopotamia when it was written. It definitely does not mention every known nation and tribe in earth at that time. So there is no reason to presume it needed to mention any other life on another planet or any other dimension or universe.

sons of god is a term , just like heavenly host, to often refer to angels.

People do not think it is fair that God would not let us know clearly and in detail that there is other intelligent life. And they assume that the first, foremost and only dominionative life is ours, that the Earth is first and prime, that the other planets and sun and stars and galaxies, revolve around the Earth. It is an extraordinary interpretation of Genesis' first chapters. They assume the sons of God in Genesis 6 and Job 1-2 are angels, but these ideas are not sola scriptura. They add to and contradict scripture.

Hebrews 1 says God never calls any angels at all, "son".

Job 1 specifies Satan was on planet Earth. There was an assembly of sons of God, not angels, Moses in writing these books could have mentioned messengers, but chose sons of God. This means in God's image and likeness. Creations that look like God. Sons not equals or self existent, but created.

 

[SkovandOfMitzae]

Well genesis 1-11 is mythology.
Job is fiction.
So there is no contradiction because in order for their to be one the text would have to be literal. It’s why genesis 1 and 2 despite telling two different stories on different orders are not contradictions , but traditions.

But within these stories it seems that they are not merely human messengers but divine beings.

For example take the story in genesis.

Genesis 6:1-4 NASB

6 Now it came about, when mankind began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of mankind were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain with man forever, because he is also flesh; nevertheless his days shall be 120 years.”4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of mankind, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

We already know humans can and are multiplying. But it goes out of its way to say daughters of mankind and sons of god. The sons were picking , presumably even forcibly taking, the woman and having kids with them that were not the typical human but we’re called the nephilim which were these powerful men known about. If they were not special, and just the typical human then all of mankind would have been the same. It’s there because it’s fitting the rest of the story. It’s a typical myth/legend ( genre ) trope.

Genesis first few chapters are setting up why is there corruption. Not just on earth, but cosmic destruction as well. We see rebellion on earth and among the heavenly hosts.

You mentioned image of god. Humans being the image of god is not about how we look, but our role as representatives of Yahweh on earth. We are “ idols “ of god which is why we don’t make statues of him.

genesis 1:26-29NASB
26 Then God said, “Let Us make mankind in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the livestock and over all the earth, and over every crawling thing that crawls on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;

Being made in the Likeness or image of God is about our function, not physical appearance. Same for Set and Adam. Cain and Abel would have also looked like Adam. It says Set was in his likeness because Set was a good person unlike Cain. It says mankind was corrupted and Set help set it straight again drawing mankind towards Yahweh before the corruption took hold and dominated again.

as for aliens and other worlds. It’s cool and fascinating. It’s really curious. But it’s not important to the story of the Bible for mankind.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I

Well genesis 1-11 is mythology.
Job is fiction.
So there is no contradiction because in order for their to be one the text would have to be literal. It’s why genesis 1 and 2 despite telling two different stories on different orders are not contradictions , but traditions.

But within these stories it seems that they are not merely human messengers but divine beings.

For example take the story in genesis.

Genesis 6:1-4 NASB

6 Now it came about, when mankind began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of mankind were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain with man forever, because he is also flesh; nevertheless his days shall be 120 years.”4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of mankind, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

We already know humans can and are multiplying. But it goes out of its way to say daughters of mankind and sons of god. The sons were picking , presumably even forcibly taking, the woman and having kids with them that were not the typical human but we’re called the nephilim which were these powerful men known about. If they were not special, and just the typical human then all of mankind would have been the same. It’s there because it’s fitting the rest of the story. It’s a typical myth/legend ( genre ) trope.

Genesis first few chapters are setting up why is there corruption. Not just on earth, but cosmic destruction as well. We see rebellion on earth and among the heavenly hosts.

You mentioned image of god. Humans being the image of god is not about how we look, but our role as representatives of Yahweh on earth. We are “ idols “ of god which is why we don’t make statues of him.

genesis 1:26-29NASB
26 Then God said, “Let Us make mankind in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the livestock and over all the earth, and over every crawling thing that crawls on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;

Being made in the Likeness or image of God is about our function, not physical appearance. Same for Set and Adam. Cain and Abel would have also looked like Adam. It says Set was in his likeness because Set was a good person unlike Cain. It says mankind was corrupted and Set help set it straight again drawing mankind towards Yahweh before the corruption took hold and dominated again.

as for aliens and other worlds. It’s cool and fascinating. It’s really curious. But it’s not important to the story of the Bible for mankind.

I tend to place weight on Moses's writings because Moses gained a good education and a greater than most prophets, revelation of God. Jesus leaned on Moses, and despite being so ancient there is reason to think Moses existed outside the Bible.

 

[BobRyan]

The Torah does not even talk about every nation even around Mesopotamia when it was written. It definitely does not mention every known nation and tribe in earth at that time. So there is no reason to presume it needed to mention any other life on another planet or any other dimension or universe.

sons of god is a term , just like heavenly host, to often refer to angels.

John 1:11 points out that the term "sons of God" can apply to men. And Luke 3:38 where Adam is called the "son of God". Meaning anyone who was created directly by God is considered "son of God" with lower-case "son".

It's the one thing that Angels and Adam have in common in regard to their origin -- and both are called "sons of God".

 

[SkovandOfMitzae]

John 1:11 points out that the term "sons of God" can apply to men. And Luke 3:38 where Adam is called the "son of God". Meaning anyone who was created directly by God is considered "son of God" with lower-case "son".

I agree. But the context within the specific stories mentioned seems to indicate angels. Especially given what we also see with Enoch.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

John 1:11 points out that the term "sons of God" can apply to men. And Luke 3:38 where Adam is called the "son of God". Meaning anyone who was created directly by God is considered "son of God" with lower-case "son".

Do angels have gender, or marry? I'd say they are like Adam before God created Eve. Sons take wives, they are distinct from servant beings which angels are. Angels don't have the power to relate to God as sons. It describes a closer relationship, in potential, servants then sons then friends then eunuchs. Hebrews 1:5 cannot be broken saying, no angels will ever be called sons.

Isaiah 9:6, and Jesus is called Father of Eternity. It means creator, designer... but then He is not literally Father of angels but creator. In our case He is brother, and creator and the Father is our Father as in abba Father. The Holy Spirit is the paraclete, friend and advocate.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

If we have the right DNA, mental components and form as God, that God created, we are sons and daughters of God and can also be, by character, sons of the Devil.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

John 1:11 points out that the term "sons of God" can apply to men. And Luke 3:38 where Adam is called the "son of God". Meaning anyone who was created directly by God is considered "son of God" with lower-case "son".

John 1:9-13 YLT
9He was the true Light, which doth enlighten every man, coming to the world; 10in the world he was, and the world through him was made, and the world did not know him: 11to his own things he came, and his own people did not receive him; 12but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God — to those believing in his name, 13who — not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but — of God were begotten.
When light fills your heart, and you are born again, your position and then character changes, so justification and sanctification, and you are in character a son or daughter of God. An angel cannot become a son, despite being full of light.

 

[BobRyan]

I agree. But the context within the specific stories mentioned seems to indicate angels. Especially given what we also see with Enoch.

I don't see any reference at all to Enoch and Angels in the Bible. What text are you speaking of??

 

[BobRyan]

Do angels have gender, or marry?

No more than God does -- according to Christ in Matt 22 - Angels do not have the biological function of family/marriage/pro-creation. Humans have it ... angels don't.

I'd say they are like Adam before God created Eve. Sons take wives

According to Christ in Matt 22 they don't even do that within their own species ( so then -- God did not create them with that purpose/function) . Much less having that ability to do it with other species.

Matt 22 says that in the resurrection humans are "like the angels" -- the resurrected human form/ability is limited as are the angels not capable of those sorts of family relations.

 

[BobRyan]

John 1:9-13 YLT
9He was the true Light, which doth enlighten every man, coming to the world; 10in the world he was, and the world through him was made, and the world did not know him: 11to his own things he came, and his own people did not receive him; 12but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God — to those believing in his name, .

It is a term speaking of belief and obedience.

So it refers to the obedient sons of God in Gen 6 who then chose to marry unbelievers. Even the NT condemns the idea of being unequally joined -- believer to unbeliever.