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And the Winner is... ... ... (Not for debate -- just for Orthodox appreciation, Thank you.)

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by truefiction1, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    Whoever takes two out of three wins:

    1) Jesus says, “Take eat, this is my body...”

    Liars say “no, it is not His body”

    Jesus 1 – Liars 0

    2) Jesus says, “Drink of it all of you, this is my blood...”

    Liars say “no, it is not His blood”

    Jesus 2 – Liars 0

    Jesus wins – Liars lose​

    GAME OVER
    (And I aint play'in no more)
     
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  2. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    yes, He does win that debate
     
  3. Glaucus

    Glaucus The Lay Monk

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    [​IMG]
     
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  4. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Not all are liars though, many are simply misled.
     
  5. Jesus4Madrid

    Jesus4Madrid Orthodox Christian

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    I don’t know how helpful this sort of argument is to prove the Real Presence. You are insulting the intelligence of sincere people with a facile argument. The Bible is replete with metaphors. Christ is called the Lamb of God, although He is obviously not a sheep.

    The best evidence for the Real Presence is that Christians everywhere and always have interpreted those verses the way you have, not that that interpretation is self-evidently obvious.
     
  6. Glaucus

    Glaucus The Lay Monk

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    Maybe some people should question their perceived intelligence? For if they would only sincerely look at history, they would see that they are wrong. History is quite clear. To do that would also make them cease to be Protestant. Whether it's willful ignorance because having their beliefs questioned is a scary thing, or that they are simply unintelligent, is for them to figure out.
     
  7. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    To be fair, I don't think it is always a case of simply willful ignorance or unintelligence.

    But I do think you are correct that it is a wall that many run into, refusing to really push in to the truth and question their beliefs. In a way they are often taught that too, because there is a kind of fear that is communicated in many Protestant groups that to begin to question anything chips away at one's faith/belief, and because they are often taught that their salvation IS their belief, they are understandably very wary of damaging it. It's really a perfect cage that has been constructed for their intellect so that even if they are handed the key, they are often afraid to use it to open the door, fearing they will be condemned if they do. I actually have compassion for this condition. If I had been wrong and what I was taught originally had been true, I would have condemned myself by exploring. But thankfully that's not how God set things up - only the construction of some men.
     
  8. Jesus4Madrid

    Jesus4Madrid Orthodox Christian

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    Well, since the OP doesn’t appeal to history, you are proving my point. Just quoting a few Bible verses is not “winning”.
     
  9. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    Appealing to history is of little use in a lot of cases, since the radical reformer's concocted "conspiracy" tales of the history of the Church "Babylon" completely legitimatize claims that this doctrine was believed and taught from the beginning. Practically everything, (they teach or are otherwise taught) that the Church teaches and practices is a lie. They refuse to be convinced by the ancient Christian manuscripts which are either forgeries or misinterpreted, according to them.

    No, these have already decided that the Church and history are incorrect. So, we have recourse to Scripture: Our Lord says so, and thus, like children who can receive the Kingdom of heaven because we do so in the manner of the simple faith of children, we believe and obey. Our Lord's Apostle also affirms the real presence in his letter, and since His letters are the Word of God, we believe and obey. We understand the history and the Truth of Holy Tradition, some of us by direct revelation of the Holy Spirit while Communing. They, however, either intentionally reject both of these things due to having fallen into prelest, or as ones having been misled by the false teachers who have.

    Little children, barely capable of forming sentences and complex abstract thoughts, are perfectly at home in the realm of "Mystery". We don't know how it is True that bread and wine are at the same time deified body and blood of the God-man. We just know that it's True, because He says so. We believe, and so we eat and drink Him Who says "My flesh is indeed meat" and "My blood is indeed drink". And we approach the Mystery "in the fear of God, with Faith and with Love."
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  10. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    Well, Jesus is the winner of this argument. Now and ever... ... ...

    I've appealed to the Creator of all history Himself, since appealing to historical evidence has fallen on the deaf and the blind with about the same amount of force as a balloon filled with helium gas.
     
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