And So It Continues

[Cimorene]

I never said he had it coming. That's the part you're projecting. You're trying to paint me as a racist. I didn't equate all Muslims to the extremists. I just don't think the extremist population is as small as you think it is. It's not like with Christianity where you have a few small bands or churches of extremists and hateful people. When 9/11 happened, millions of Muslims celebrated in the streets. I saw it on the news myself. Including the thousands who Trump said he saw celebrating in the U.S., which was proven to be true.

No, it was proven that what he said was a big fat oozing lie.

Muslims who were ALREADY HERE saw the twin towers collapse and they celebrated! They were happy! And even if they're not what we call terrorists, even more of them enslave women, force them to cover up, they're not allowed to drive or go to school. They force children into marriages at young ages. It is illegal to be gay in nearly every Muslim nation. And yet, the left, who proudly celebrates homosexuality and women's rights embrace Islam because they see Christianity as a threat to freedom and rights, not Islam.

The 9/11 terrorists were from countries NOT on the travel ban. I'm sure some Muslims in the US back then cheered it on, but I know for fact that a lot of Muslims went to vigils honouring the victims & were as sad & horrified as everybody else. I know that there were many who had their own lives terribly impacted bc of how Muslims were treated post-9/11.

Out of 600 Muslim-Americans polled, 25% said Jihad is okay against Americans. I know you're going to scoff at this poll, but it's legit.

Ok, so according to your own questionable poll from an ultra conservative site the clear majority disagreed.

With that being said, I think most people understand that there are millions of hard working, peace-loving Muslims out there. There's no doubt in my mind. They travel back and forth to help take care of their families. That's why I'm okay with a 3-month ban. It lets us figure out our vetting system. Heck, it might even become better once we take a look at it! It could let us be more secure while speeding up the vetting process with new technology and all that.

I'm just saying I care more about my safety than someone being inconvenienced for an hour at the airport. If someone is pulled aside, it's because there's a good reason. They didn't look at the guy and go, "he must be a Muslim, let's pull him out." No, someone was using his name so they checked it out. I hope they continue doing that regardless of their skin color, religion, or whatever. There is NO Muslim ban.

Yeah, you're OK with a 3 month ban bc it has zero impact on you. The US already has a strong vetting process in place. Sure some people have slipped in who shouldn't but it's still really strong. How many people from the banned countries have committed any terrorist attacks on American soil this millennium? I live in Canada, the only massacre we've had was committed by a white man described by those who know him as a Trump-loving anti-immigration white nationalist. He shot up a mosque. So since he's committed more crimes in North America than anybody on the travel list, should the US block Canadians from entry for 3 months?

Thought you said you were done talking about politics a while back?

 

[Saucy]

What do you suppose would have happened if Obama had been caught on tape bragging about how he got away with sexually assaulting women, lied repeatedly about things he claimed to have seen, refused to release his tax returns, suggested assassinating his opponents, and claimed that his predecessor had wiretapped him without producing any evidence?

We all know that there would have been an impeachment. Did you even think about this before writing it?

Trump didn't brag about sexually assaulting women. And if you're a democrat who supported Hillary Clinton, you're a hypocrite, as not only her husband DID sexually assault women, she enabled him, called the women bimbos, attacked them in public and on and on.

He didn't suggest anyone assassinate anyone. He didn't lie repeatedly about what he's seen. I saw it myself on TV that day! I remember it vividly!

NJ police captain says some Muslims did celebrate on 9/11 | New York Post

Kerik: Trump Correct, New York Area Muslims Were Celebrating After 9/11

And Obama did lie. MANY TIMES.

Anyone remember "If you want to keep your health plan, you can keep your health plan"? LIE.

There are others. Here's a link to Politifact that counts at least 80 lies Obama told:
All False statements involving Barack Obama | PolitiFact

Remember Hillary's story of being under sniper fire? Total lie. Or when her and the DNC lied about receiving debate questions early?

More lies of Hillary:
All False statements involving Hillary Clinton | PolitiFact

And as for the wiretapping thing, he hasn't told his side yet. He's still investigating and putting evidence together and said he will come forward with his case soon. So I've been waiting to hear his side before coming to a conclusion. It still might've happened.

And the tax return thing is ridiculous. I never cared about that, regardless of what side you're on. I'm sure Trump has had dealings with Russia and many other countries. Except, the left wants all the ammo they can get to try and find reasons to impeach him. That's the only reason why they care.

 

[Saucy]

No, it was proven that what he said was a big fat oozing lie.




The 9/11 terrorists were from countries NOT on the travel ban. I'm sure some Muslims in the US back then cheered it on, but I know for fact that a lot of Muslims went to vigils honouring the victims & were as sad & horrified as everybody else. I know that there were many who had their own lives terribly impacted bc of how Muslims were treated post-9/11.



Ok, so according to your own questionable poll from an ultra conservative site the clear majority disagreed.



Yeah, you're OK with a 3 month ban bc it has zero impact on you. The US already has a strong vetting process in place. Sure some people have slipped in who shouldn't but it's still really strong. How many people from the banned countries have committed any terrorist attacks on American soil this millennium? I live in Canada, the only massacre we've had was committed by a white man described by those who know him as a Trump-loving anti-immigration white nationalist. He shot up a mosque. So since he's committed more crimes in North America than anybody on the travel list, should the US block Canadians from entry for 3 months?

Thought you said you were done talking about politics a while back?

1) There's no evidence that shooter was a Trump-lover. That's something the Occupy Democrats and other false left-leaning sites shared and it was untrue.
2) No, it wasn't a whopping lie and I proved it above with several reputable sources.
3) If people slipped in, then it wasn't good enough.

 

[Tull]

My only wish is that those who suffer violence at the hands of terrorist are only those who wanted them here to begin with.

 

[The Barbarian]

Trump didn't brag about sexually assaulting women.

Sorry, he was caught on tape bragging about it. I'd have to censor it to show it here; it was extraordinarily filthy, but I can do that for you if you want.

And if you're a democrat who supported Hillary Clinton

Sorry, no bunny trails for you today. I didn't support her, but it's pretty low to blame Hillary for the things her husband did, doubly so to make up stories about her enabling him.

He didn't suggest anyone assassinate anyone.

Yep. He suggested if Clinton was elected no one could do anything about it, but the "2nd amendment people." Got him a visit from the secret service.

He didn't lie repeatedly about what he's seen.

He lied. Reporters checked every television station for the content broadcast that day. It never happened.

No point in denying any of it. Just deal with it and go on.

 

[The Barbarian]

My only wish is that those who suffer violence at the hands of terrorist are only those who wanted them here to begin with.

Be careful what you wish for. Remember, right-wing terrorists are a much larger threat in the U.S. than Muslims.

 

[JGG]

We won the election. We won the House and the Senate. We have a majority rule on state governors. The country is rebelling and rather than identifying that maybe something is wrong, the left would rather separate themselves from us.

Is that any different from what the right did 8 years ago? Did the right come to the table when Obama became President?

You even said you don't identify with the right anymore. That's because of the effort to label the right as racist bigots.

Do you know that that's why I don't identify with the right anymore, or are you speculating?

We support the next Hitler! What do we have to do to take part in this conversation? We're opening the door. We want back-and-forth communication, but your side wants nothing to do with us.

I should point out that you clearly are not interested in back-and-forth communication. Rather than actually asking me why I don't identify with the right, you actually tried to tell me why I don't, as though you would somehow know better than me.

As I just said, your only end-game is the ousting of Donald Trump.

What was the end-game of of the right 8-years ago? Was it the ousting of Obama?

Because we're the ones in power right now, you left, center, or whatever you all want to consider yourselves are the ones who need to understand why you lost. It's not racism that you claim. It's because there are some major issues within the democratic party they need to identify. Rather than reach out to the right, they demonized us and now expect us to do the work to open the door for communication?

Are you claiming that the right doesn't demonize the left? Do you think I can find instances where you guys have? Heck, do you think I can find an instance of you demonizing lefties right here in this thread?

You're the ones who need to reconcile that Trump is president and that's not going to change.

Well, it will change eventually. However, just because he's President does not mean that I have to simply blindly accept everything he says and does. You seem to demand that I do. I am critical of the President. I was critical of him while he was a candidate. I have numerous examples of things he's said, done, and believes that I'm critical of, that has nothing to do with him being secret Hitler.

My vote counts. We won the election fair and square. We've opened the door. We aren't the ones being unreasonable here.

You're not?

Do you think it's reasonable that you condemn the left in general for saying that Trump is Hitler, while praising Tim Allen for claiming that lefties are Nazis?

There are reasons that I don't identify with the right anymore. Lots of them in fact. I would get into them, but I'm fairly sure you'd not be interested, because I really don't think you want a back-and-forth conversation, I think you just want everyone to fall in line. And I really have no interest in just falling in line.

 

[Cimorene]

1) There's no evidence that shooter was a Trump-lover. That's something the Occupy Democrats and other false left-leaning sites shared and it was untrue.
2) No, it wasn't a whopping lie and I proved it above with several reputable sources.
3) If people slipped in, then it wasn't good enough.

1. Yes, there is evidence that the Quebec mosque shooter was a Trump-loving nationalist, bc not only is that how people who knew him described him, but that's what is evident from his own social media.
2. Yes, it was a whooping & demented lie, as proven by many sources that really are reputable. You've lied to me, so there's no way that I'm going to trust that sources you call reputable are actually so.
3. It was good enough to keep anyone from any of the countries on the travel ban from committing any crimes on American soil in this millennium.

 

[Tull]

Be careful what you wish for. Remember, right-wing terrorists are a much larger threat in the U.S. than Muslims.

Yeah,well right wing terrorist would be less likely to kill me because I'm white and not a Muslim and along with leftwing snowflakes who would try to beat me up because I'm white and Trump supporter so I'll take my chances

 

[The Barbarian]

Yeah,well right wing terrorist would be less likely to kill me because I'm white

[sarcasm]Yeah, in Oklahoma city, they set the bomb so it wouldn't kill white people.[/sarcasm]

Right wingers would perhaps prefer to kill non-whites, but when push comes to shove, they kill indiscriminately. And you are much, much more likely to be taken out by a right-wing terrorist.

so I'll take my chances

It's a common delusion on the right. A republican politician once wanted to give tobacco companies a pass on their products because only one of three smokers dies of a tobacco-induced illness, but was cringing in fear because one Muslim in a million commits acts of terror. That's what passes for sense among extremists.

 

[Saucy]

Sorry, he was caught on tape bragging about it. I'd have to censor it to show it here; it was extraordinarily filthy, but I can do that for you if you want.



Sorry, no bunny trails for you today. I didn't support her, but it's pretty low to blame Hillary for the things her husband did, doubly so to make up stories about her enabling him.



Yep. He suggested if Clinton was elected no one could do anything about it, but the "2nd amendment people." Got him a visit from the secret service.



He lied. Reporters checked every television station for the content broadcast that day. It never happened.

No point in denying any of it. Just deal with it and go on.

You took his comments out of context. That's not what he even said at all. He was saying that the pro-second amendment crowd would go out and vote and prevent her from becoming president, not that they would kill her and take her out. Do you seriously think Trump, even with a big mouth that he has, would openly ask people to assassinate Hillary? Seriously? Of course, the left ran with it that he tried to get her killed and that's not what he said at all.

As for the sexual comments, he said, "When your famous, they LET YOU DO IT" He was bragging about being rich and famous and women fawning on him. But the "LET YOU DO IT" part is consent. There are no "I raped her against her will" comments. Of course, you'll believe what you want to believe.

As for "making up that she enabled him", there have been reports of Slick Willie cheating and womanizing for the majority of their marriage! He cheated, lied to the American people, raped, assaulted and here you are defending them! Hillary viciously attacked those women for making the claims and stood with her husband lying on TV. So yes, she enabled him.

 

[Saucy]

It's obvious we're not going to agree. Where can we come together on these issues? How do we heal this country?

 

[Cimorene]

[sarcasm]Yeah, in Oklahoma city, they set the bomb so it wouldn't kill white people.[/sarcasm]

Right wingers would perhaps prefer to kill non-whites, but when push comes to shove, they kill indiscriminately. And you are much, much more likely to be taken out by a right-wing terrorist.



It's a common delusion on the right. A republican politician once wanted to give tobacco companies a pass on their products because only one of three smokers dies of a tobacco-induced illness, but was cringing in fear because one Muslim in a million commits acts of terror. That's what passes for sense among extremists.

When we lived in the US I was way more worried about gun violence than terrorism. We had lockdown drills. A school my sister's school used to play against had a shooting massacre in 2014, & then last summer friends of hers from the school she went to when we lived there were at a party where this kid who'd gone to school with them came & shot people to death. Both shootings happened in really nice areas that were mostly white. Most school shooters have been young & white, but I don't fear young white guys as a result.

 

[JGG]

It's obvious we're not going to agree. Where can we come together on these issues? How do we heal this country?

Really? After all that you have no idea?

Let me give you something to consider: Perhaps it's not in your best interest to condemn all lefties after some compared him to Hitler while you praise Tim Allen for comparing lefties to Nazis. Hold yourself to the same standard you expect others to live up to, or there's not much incentive to sit down and talk. While you call them unreasonable, you show yourself to be just as unreasonable.

That's just for starters.

 

[Cimorene]

Really? After all that you have no idea?

Let me give you something to consider: Perhaps it's not in your best interest to condemn all lefties after some compared him to Hitler while you praise Tim Allen for comparing lefties to Nazis. Hold yourself to the same standard you expect others to live up to, or there's not much incentive to sit down and talk.

That's just for starters.

Another start is to not falsely assume that everyone who criticizes Trump must be a liberal or a leftie extremist. I'm neither to anyone who knows me IRL but on this forum have been called that repeatedly, lol.

 

[Saucy]

Um, I didn't praise Tim Allen. I simply brought up that he made those comments. You guys are the ones here comparing Trump to Hitler, so I just brought up a point that there are many who think the left is trying to shut down free speech, making even mentioning Trump a hate crime, and so on. We've seen the riots and attacks to free speech. Why can't I comment on that? I was asked what I can bring to the table, but NONE of you are even willing to address the behavior coming from the left. In fact, you defend it. All the things you're saying for me not to do, you guys have done it to me. Assumed I said things I didn't say, took the extreme context I didn't even imply, and even tried to paint me as a racist.

Sure sounds like the left to me.

 

[JGG]

Um, I didn't praise Tim Allen. I simply brought up that he made those comments.

Yeah? To what end? What did it demonstrate?

You guys are the ones here comparing Trump to Hitler, so I just brought up a point that there are many who think the left is trying to shut down free speech, making even mentioning Trump a hate crime, and so on.

Do you see where your losing us in there? Any idea why we wouldn't want to sit down and chat?

We've seen the riots and attacks to free speech. Why can't I comment on that?

You are more than welcome to comment on it. But I have not been in riots, and I have not attacked your free speech. I have no ability to change any of that.

I was asked what I can bring to the table, but NONE of you are even willing to address the behavior coming from the left.

Maybe I am. But I'm not sitting at the table yet, and don't

In fact, you defend it.

Where did I do that?

All the things you're saying for me not to do, you guys have done it to me. Assumed I said things I didn't say, took the extreme context I didn't even imply, and even tried to paint me as a racist. Sure sounds like the left to me.

So you don't particularly want to sit at the table either. You just want us to fall in line?

 

[Tull]

[sarcasm]Yeah, in Oklahoma city, they set the bomb so it wouldn't kill white people.[/sarcasm]

So you had to go back a few years

When we lived in the US I was way more worried about gun violence than terrorism. We had lockdown drills. A school my sister's school used to play against had a shooting massacre in 2014, & then last summer friends of hers from the school she went to when we lived there were at a party where this kid who'd gone to school with them came & shot people to death. Both shootings happened in really nice areas that were mostly white. Most school shooters have been young & white, but I don't fear young white guys as a result.

No doubt about it,you are safer in Canada so stay there.

Right wingers would perhaps prefer to kill non-whites, but when push comes to shove, they kill indiscriminately. And you are much, much more likely to be taken out by a right-wing terrorist.

Nonsense

It's obvious we're not going to agree. Where can we come together on these issues? How do we heal this country?

There is no coming together,you bow to their will and ways or else and its going to lead to war and destruction of the country.

It's a common delusion on the right.

Delusion is common on the left period.

 

[The Barbarian]

You took his comments out of context. That's not what he even said at all. He was saying that the pro-second amendment crowd would go out and vote and prevent her from becoming president, not that they would kill her and take her out.

Sorry, that story won't work. In context he says that if she gets to pick judges, then there's nothing anyone can do but the "2nd amendment people."

"So here, I just wrote this down today. Hillary wants to raise taxes -- it's a comparison. I want to lower them. Hillary wants to expand regulations, which she does bigly. Can you believe that? I will reduce them very, very substantially, could be as much as 70 to 75 percent. Hillary wants to shut down energy production. I want to expand it. Lower electric bills, folks! Hillary wants to abolish, essentially abolish, the Second Amendment. By the way, and if she gets to pick --if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know. But I'll tell you what, that will be a horrible day, if -- if -- Hillary gets to put her judges in."

Notice that he lied again, claiming Clinton wanted to end the 2nd amendment. So it's what to do after she's elected and gets to pick judges. What could gun people do after the elections to stop her? That's what got him a visit from the Secret Service.

Do you seriously think Trump, even with a big mouth that he has, would openly ask people to assassinate Hillary?

Clearly, he preferred to just hint at it, rather than openly call for it.

Seriously?

Hard to say if he was serious or not. As his harebrained claim that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower indicates, his mouth slips into gear well before his brain is engaged.

As for the sexual comments, he said, "When your famous, they LET YOU DO IT"

If a different sexual predator was talking about the same thing, and told the police that the woman didn't struggle when he walked up and grabbed her genitals, what would he police say? Right. Of course, you'll believe what you want to believe.

As for "making up that she enabled him", there have been reports of Slick Willie cheating and womanizing for the majority of their marriage!

That's a very conservative idea; "he cheated, but it's his wife's fault!"

He cheated, lied to the American people, raped, assaulted and here you are defending them!

You should know that Trump has been accused by a female (who was 13 at the time) of raping her, and backed it up with a lawsuit. Clinton has not been so accused.

This is why you get so little respect here. Making up stories about what I said only makes it worse for you. I'm pointing out that even most conservatives don't approve attacking a wife whose husband is an adulterer. No one here said defended Bill Clinton's adulteries. And it's unfortunate that you said otherwise.

Do better, and things will go better for you.

 

[Saucy]

Yeah? To what end? What did it demonstrate?



Do you see where your losing us in there? Any idea why we wouldn't want to sit down and chat?



You are more than welcome to comment on it. But I have not been in riots, and I have not attacked your free speech. I have no ability to change any of that.



Maybe I am. But I'm not sitting at the table yet, and don't



Where did I do that?



So you don't particularly want to sit at the table either. You just want us to fall in line?

What line? I'm trying to open the door. I apologize deeply if my comments offended anyone, but I was talking about the left based upon the behavior I've seen and read about the last 5 months. If you're not part of the left, if you haven't done that stuff, then I wasn't talking about you. Just like not every Trump supporter is a racist bigot. I shared my heartfelt feelings of what I want and they weren't even addressed. The only comment I saw was, "So why do you support Trump then?" I felt Trump was the best candidate to handle the issues that are important to me. No, I don't think he bragged about assaulting women. I do believe he was right about Muslims celebrating and I posted more than one source for that and even saw it with my own eyes and was outright told it was a lie...how was it a lie when I SAW IT MYSELF?!

Here's more proof and I dare you to watch it. Rioting and celebrating ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. People were calling in to the Howard Stern show that morning and the next day reporting it. Eyewitness accounts. Arrests happened. How can you continue to deny this happened and say Trump is lying?

The Palestinians celebrated in the streets. They celebrated all over the world. These are all extremists? They seem like your average everyday Muslims to me. They hate Israel, so they hate the U.S.

The FBI is currently investigating ties to ISIS in literally every single state. Thousands of cases all over the country. Not just a few cases here or there, but they're spread out all over the world and our country. They are using the refugee crisis in Syria and those other 6 countries to spread throughout the world.

So why is it wrong to want better vetting? To halt things for a short time to root out who is here to kill us and who is here to work hard and take care of their family? They look awfully alike in my opinion. You can't know someone's thoughts. The neighbors of the San Bernadino couple had no clue that couple was building bombs in the garage and stocking up ammo. How many Muslims in America right now are currently building bombs and stocking up on ammo? We have no clue.

And I personally think if a terrorist attack happened under Trump's watch, that's yet another thing the left would blame him for. They'd say he didn't do a good enough job protecting this country, even though every attempt he's made was obstructed by the left. Even though we're this far in and they STILL haven't confirmed all of Trump's cabinet picks.

All I want is not to be automatically dismissed. I listen and learn. I apologize when I need to. I've changed a few stances on Trump, like I now believe the wall is a bad idea. Buyer's remorse? Not one bit.