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And So It Continues

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by The Barbarian, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Gangster of Four

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    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Socialist.


    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
    Martin Niemöller
     
  2. Saucy

    Saucy allworkandnoplayallworkandnoplayallworkandnoplay Supporter

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    Oh jeez. Suddenly he's a victim on the same level as the Holocaust just for being detained at the airport...something that's been going on since 9/11.
     
  3. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Gangster of Four

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    [sarcasm]Of course. He's an American citizen with a Muslim name, so he should just be grateful they didn't handcuff him and deport him. Imagine the arrogance of that guy, expecting to be treated like he was a real American! [/sarcasm]

    This is how it starts. The day after Hitler gained power, they didn't start shipping Jews off. It was a gradual thing, as Niemöller points out. If Germans went into the streets, protesting about Jews being demoted to "subjects", the Holocaust might well have never happened. That's what your indifference means, when applied to someone who isn't exactly like you.

    If there was any justice, someone should lose a job over this.
     
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  4. rambot

    rambot Senior Member

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    Pfeah! He and his cultural group have been targeted for 16 years! He should just chill out. I mean, for how long do we have to distrust people who sound like they might be muslim before they realize "Hey! I better change my name and stop worshiping the God the constitution protects me to worship. If that's what it takes to be treated like a good American citizen, I better get on that.
     
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  5. Saucy

    Saucy allworkandnoplayallworkandnoplayallworkandnoplay Supporter

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    Who said any of that? There might've been a reason why he was pulled aside. He was already home, right? He flew to Paris and back with no issues. And no, not just Muslims have been detailed. All different sorts of people have been detained, including Christians. I know a white grandmother who was pulled aside and detained to answer some questions. You're acting like he was thrown on the ground, handcuffed, and detained for days or thrown out of the country. Maybe he had a name of a known terrorist. Maybe his name is on a list somewhere. There's a ton of legitimate reasons.
     
  6. Saucy

    Saucy allworkandnoplayallworkandnoplayallworkandnoplay Supporter

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    No one is banning Muslims. No one is rounding up Muslims and kicking them out UNLESS THEY DON'T BELONG HERE. You guys are just overreacting over this whole thing. It's 6 countries (that OBAMA and the congress outlined as the six worst terrorist countries), out of 40 Muslim nations. Those listed aren't even top-5 in Muslim population. But "oh my gosh! Trump is banning Muslims! Even though Christians were also detained and sent back home, this is purely a Muslim ban! Even though it's just temporary, it's a ban! Just wait until Trump grows that Hitler mustache and starts setting up detention camps all over the country!" Give me a break!

    Every president since Carter banned immigration from Muslim countries, but how many of them do we call racist?
     
  7. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Gangster of Four

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    Not so long as the Bill of Rights remains. But Trump promised to do it, and tried to do it twice.

    Just that pesky Constitution, again, um?

    Actually, it's the Muslim nations that Trump has no investments in. The ones that he does have investments in, the ones from which the 9/11 terrorists came, those were O.K., he figured.

    Just what he promised he'd do. Except for that darned Constitution!
     
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  8. Saucy

    Saucy allworkandnoplayallworkandnoplayallworkandnoplay Supporter

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    Um, no. Trump didn't promise to ban Muslims. He promised to pause immigration from the worst countries for a certain period of time to fix the vetting process. It's temporary. And the president actually has the power and authority to stop immigration as he sees fit. The Supreme Court declared: “The exclusion of aliens is a fundamental act of sovereignty … inherent in the executive power may by proclamation and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens and any class of aliens as immigrants or non-immigrants whenever he thinks it would be detrimental to the interests of the United States.” So, yeah. Again, well within his rights.

    Even CNN disagrees with you. They also report that the seven countries chosen by Trump were originally chosen by the Obama administration as 'countries of concern'.

    How the Trump administration chose the 7 countries in the immigration executive order - CNNPolitics.com

    So no, it's not based on countries he doesn't have investments in. Not sure where you get your news.

    It doesn't matter where the terrorists are born. They are born all over the world, including the U.S. and go oversees to those seven countries to join Isis or the Taliban or whatever terrorist organization they want to choose. These are the worst of the terrorist countries, again, OUTLINED BY PRESIDENT OBAMA. If it was a Muslim ban, then over 40 countries would've been on the list.
     
  9. Allandavid

    Allandavid Well-Known Member

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    You need to go back and listen to his MANY speeches on the subject, before you embarrass yourself further. He specifically spoke in terms of a Muslim ban over and over again. This demonstrates INTENT. And judges will assess intent when deciding about the lawfulness of an action.
     
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  10. rambot

    rambot Senior Member

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    There are two different arguments here:
    1) Trump DID promise to ban muslims. Numerous times. It's hard to believe you fell asleep during the whole election campaign
    Donald Trump Proposes Stopping All Muslim Immigration
    He tried to temper it a bit. But it was almost/more than a solid year of the same message.
    2) EVENTUALLY he realized he CAN'T just ban ALL muslims. That's when he tried to go with a territorial ban instead.
    Remember that you said this because.....
    Because none of your excuses or legitimate reasons make sense. If he is permitted to leave the US, why is he not permitted to return unfettered?
     
  11. Saucy

    Saucy allworkandnoplayallworkandnoplayallworkandnoplay Supporter

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    If your name is on a terrorist or do not fly list, that's not a legitimate reason to pull someone aside and ask a few questions? Again, they do that to old grandmas, white people, Christians, and every other type of person.

    You see, your posts and the title of this article makes it sound like Trump just wants to ban ALL Muslims from ever coming here. You're making it sound like he just hates Muslims and he's going to just throw them all out. That's not the case at all. That's what the media and the left want you to think about Donald Trump, but that's not his stance at all. Even in this article, from the second paragraph and taken from his actual memo the article reports:

    The emphasis is mine. It's the part you all just conveniently leave out when talking about this subject. Yes, his original stance was a ban, but it was a TEMPORARY ban for a specific reason. And he gives his reasons in his memo, which include:

    25% of Muslims polled in the U.S. think it's okay to cause violence against Americans as part of a global Jihad.
    44% of Muslims polled believe they should be governed by Sharia Law.

    His stance wasn't born out of hatred for Muslims, but right after multiple terrorist shooting attacks here, the attacks in Paris and all over Europe, the crisis being caused in Europe after the refugee crisis, the fact that terrorists are hiding among the refugees to get into countries, and the fact that 25% of Muslims ALREADY HERE are okay with violence against Americans.

    Yeah, the Muslims are throwing gays off rooftops, killing Christians and other Muslims, raining chaos and violence all over the world, but Trump is Hitler for proposing a temporary ban. Someone gets held up at the airport, so that's the same as the Holocaust. That's how you guys are sounding right now.
     
  12. rambot

    rambot Senior Member

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    So first off, you have made the jump to "his name was on a terror list" when you have no basis for that rationale. In fact, given that he had flown OUT of the US ALREADY (as I pointed out) that particular excuse must be bunk because if he was on a no fly list, he wouldn't have been able to leave in the first place.

    It's the people who support him that would have NO problem throwing all muslims out; THOSE are the people I worry about. And the fact that he emboldens their nonsense. Courts will keep him in check. He needs to try to keep the hate in check, and frankly, he's not going to make any efforts in doing so.

    Why do you choose to be scared like this? In the grand scheme of shootings, deaths etc, this is inconsequential to say the LEAST.
    In the course of a single calendar year, the odds of you getting murdered are 1 in 19000
    The odds of getting killed by an immigrant terrorist: 1 in 3,600,000,000
    Do you see all those 0s there?
    They aren't there for fun. They are there to show you how stupid it is to waste money on that fight; how stupid it is to buy into the fear that immigrants are the BIGGEST threat to your life in the US; how stupid it is to distrust muslims. There are soooooo many things that make fear of the "immigrant terrorist threat" a stupid, stupid, thing to fear.

    You can choose to ignore all those 0s that show you exactly how much bearing your belief have to the actual danger you are in but you should not be able to allow that misguided distrust affect those people. IT is YOUR hang up, not their "evilness".

    Yes. ALL muslims are throwing gays off rooftops, and killing christians and other muslims. That is an accurate representation of the entirety of the Muslim world. What is strange is that, if you ACTUALLY believe that all Muslims are doing that, then certainly you WOULD be in favour of a blanket ban on all muslims right?
     
  13. Cimorene

    Cimorene Happy Summer

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    What, was Trump using invisible air quotes when he repeatedly said he was calling for a total & complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States? The judges who ruled against his bigoted ban didn't think so, since they used his own words to show that it was a Muslim ban. Trump may be able to get his disciples to believe whatever semantic games he wants, but thankfully people who actually went to law school & have a clue about the Constitution have been able to stand up to him.

    I thought you said you were done talking about politics if I watched your long Trump propaganda video? I watched the whole thing.
     
  14. rambot

    rambot Senior Member

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    How many times did this happen during the campaign? How many times did we have to clarify for his supporters the words coming out of his own mouth?
     
  15. Redac

    Redac Regular Member

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    Oh no, someone got inconvenienced at an airport. Holocaust 2: Electric Boogaloo must be on its way.
     
  16. Cimorene

    Cimorene Happy Summer

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    His disciples parroted what he said about banning Muslims. What was strange is that up in Canada people were more knowledgeable about the US Constitution than Americans, bc they knew the ban would get shut down & Trump's own words would be used against him. They knew that he was lying about the Obama putting a "tapp" on his phone.
     
  17. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Can you summarize the video? I couldn't get it to play...
     
  18. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    I couldn't see the video...was this a regular inspection or something criminal?
     
  19. Armoured

    Armoured So is America great again yet? Supporter

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    I love the way we go from "there's no Muslim ban, don't be ridiculous" to "and anyway, Muslims are evil and deserve it" all in the same post.
     
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  20. Armoured

    Armoured So is America great again yet? Supporter

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    Even if these highly questionable stats are accurate, how many Christians believe comparably alarming things? Because without a basis for comparison, the blatant anti-Muslim scare mongering looks like blatant anti-Muslim scare mongering.
    Christians are, too. Shall we ban them?
    you're thinking of Americans.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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