Anabaptist vs. Calvinist theology

[Crazy Liz]

Mods, please allow Bulldog to debate here, since he claims to be an Anabaptist. If this turns out to be inappropriate, please move this thread to General Theology.

Thank you.

In what ways do you think the that anabaptist theology and Calvinism are in contradiction?

Did not the Anabaptist Reformer Urlich Zwingli believe the doctrines of grace?

First of all, the first Anabaptists were followers of Zwingli, but Zwingli himself never became an Anabaptist.

As I understand it, what Calvinists think of when they say "the doctrines of grace" is that humans have no free will. God bestows saving grace on some humans and not on others - they are "vessels of wrath" created for destruction. If this is what you mean by "the doctrines of grace," this has never been part of Anabaptist theology.

Anabaptist theology defines the church as the voluntary association of believers in Christ. Before I discuss this any more, I'll wait to see if you reply, and if you mean by "the doctrines of grace" what I think Calvinists mean.

 

[Bulldog]

Thank you, Crazy Liz,

Mods, please allow Bulldog to debate here, since he claims to be an Anabaptist. If this turns out to be inappropriate, please move this thread to General Theology.

To be honest, I have not studied as much Anabaptist theology as I should have. (manily the views on sacrements, church government, and socail issues). I agreed with what I read, I had no idea that the theology contradicted Calvinism. If it does, I will be glad to stop posting in this forum.

First of all, the first Anabaptists were followers of Zwingli, but Zwingli himself never became an Anabaptist.

Okay, guess you learn something new everyday.....

As I understand it, what Calvinists think of when they say "the doctrines of grace" is that humans have no free will. God bestows saving grace on some humans and not on others - they are "vessels of wrath" created for destruction. If this is what you mean by "the doctrines of grace," this has never been part of Anabaptist theology.

Anabaptist theology defines the church as the voluntary association of believers in Christ. Before I discuss this any more, I'll wait to see if you reply, and if you mean by "the doctrines of grace" what I think Calvinists mean.

Depends on what you mean by "free will." If you mean that man's will is still in a free state to choose God, then no. We do not deny that men resist the Holy Spirit, and we do not believe that men cannot reeject the outward call of the gospel.

We believe that this means God must-unconditionally (but not randomly)- choose to reddem sinners. The sinners are dead in their sins, so when raised up by God, it is not their will that will prevail but God's. God's grace is bestowed freely and unconditionally, because man's nature does not allow him to meet any condition.

The intent of Christ's blood in the cross was meant only for the elect, thos God chose from the foundations of the world. No one dneis the suffiecny of the atonement for anyone who would like to belive, but we disagree with the Arminian viewpoint on the intent.

Once in the faith believers are preserved by God (and perservere themselves). They may fall into sin, and they will never become sinless untik heaven, but they cannever cmpletly fal from the faith.

THis is not exhaustive, it's just a short summary of what we affectionatly call "the doctrines of grace."

 

[Crazy Liz]

There are Baptists who are Calvinists, but I don't think any Anabaptists, based on what you posted.

Here are some links on Anabaptist theology. What do you think?

http://www.anabaptistchurch.org/anabaptist_theology.htm

http://www.mhsc.ca/index.asp?content=http://www.mhsc.ca/encyclopedia/contents/S247ME.html

http://ontruth.com/menno.html

This one particularly deals with grace and the Atonement:

http://www.directionjournal.org/article/?1170

Anabaptists certainly do not believe in Limited Atonement or Irresistable Grace, and probably would at least not entirely agree with Calvinists on the other points of TULIP, either.

 

[Glorianna]

Interesting... you guys are teaching me a lot.

 

[ZiSunka]

I don't know any anabaptists who are calvinists, but all of the anabaptists I have ever heard speak about the subject tend more toward arminianism. I personally think neither one is entirely correct, therefore I mostly stay out of the discussion. All I know is calivnism was created by Calvin and arminianism was created by Arminus, and I only follow the teachings of Christ.

 

[Bulldog]

There are Baptists who are Calvinists, but I don't think any Anabaptists, based on what you posted.

Here are some links on Anabaptist theology. What do you think?

http://www.anabaptistchurch.org/anabaptist_theology.htm

http://www.mhsc.ca/index.asp?content=http://www.mhsc.ca/encyclopedia/contents/S247ME.html

http://ontruth.com/menno.html

This one particularly deals with grace and the Atonement:

http://www.directionjournal.org/article/?1170

Anabaptists certainly do not believe in Limited Atonement or Irresistable Grace, and probably would at least not entirely agree with Calvinists on the other points of TULIP, either.

Okay, thanks for the links. I guess I'm not one after all.