An uneasy Florida braces for white supremacist speech and protests

AirPo

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This is an interest angle. A couple of weeks ago I heard the Universities are able to make decisions on who can speak based upon the academic value of the material that would be presented. An easy out what it's just going to be propaganda. But in this case, it seems to be a public rental space that the University happens to own.

University of Florida President W. Kent Fuchs denounced Spencer's white supremacist platform as abhorrent in a letter to students but said the school could not stop him from renting the Phillips Center for the event.

Full story here -->:wave:
 

Ringo84

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They're reportedly spending lots of $$$ for security, all to protect a worthless Nazi's life.

I'm just wondering what it's going to take before people start...you know...blaming actual Nazis for the trouble they cause. We've already had one death at their hands in Charlottesville, VA, and you still have people performing Olympics-level gymnastics feats to somehow spin that as Heather Heyer's fault or to blame antifa.

These people have never hidden what they are or what they believe. They've openly threatened synagogues, chanted "Jews will not replace us", and proudly marched under swastika banners. I know it's tough to accept that white supremacy is on the rise in this country, but we need to stop blaming the people who oppose Nazis (antifa) for what Nazis do.
Ringo
 
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Hank77

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People should just not show up. Totally ignore him and go about their day as if he doesn't exist. Why would anyone give this lizard what he wants, notoriety?
Hopefully, the school's ban on masks, all kinds of weapons, etc. will keep violent Antifa troublemakers away.

That doesn't mean one should ignore the issue. Discussions about the threat of the rise of racist groups needs to be addressed. They are not ever going to go away completely but they can be held at bay by moral and ethical people, just as the KKK has been for a generation, plus.
 
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mala

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ignoring nazis does not make them go away. it only emboldens them to act with more impunity when they see that nobody is there to stop them.
plus richard needs another dose of punch to the face. should always take your meds.
 
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SummerMadness

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I was listening to a radio program this morning where they were discussing the topic of free speech, but this event in particular. In this particular case, Richard Spencer was not invited to speak at the university, rather, he signed up for space there and whatever the rules of the university, they could not deny his request. I believe this was also the case at a university in Texas awhile back. I think this will result in universities across the country disallowing use of their space from outside groups without the sponsorship of someone that attends/works at the university.

I've listened to the reasoning for people that either support or oppose him speaking and I think both sides make some valid points. For instance, he only has to pay $10,000 for security, which is paltry to what the university and city have to spend in order to police the element he brings to the city (they estimated about $500,000). When the neo-Nazis/white supremacists outnumbered counter-protesters, someone died. In most of cases when the counter-protesters outnumbering racists, it ends peacefully. He wishes to cause trouble and wants violence (that's why some of them are happy Heather Heyer died), so people need to stop pretending that these are people that simply have ugly views.

However, I was not as convinced by the people arguing that hate speech is not free speech because it really is. I think there is something to be gained by wiping the floor with their views and showing how idiotic and unwanted their beliefs are in the United States. There was one speaker that made a good point that we shouldn't simply prevent them from speaking because that doesn't make their views or ideas go away, at the same time he mentioned that empirically, disruption does have some affect on preventing the propagation of these views (which if they really did propagate, would result in a truly unfree society). But again, there is no silver bullet when it comes to these discussions. But there is still no good argument for saying, "Just ignore it," because that's only something you can say when you're not the target of that hate speech.

I recently saw a news story about lawmakers wanting to make disruption illegal, but that actually curtails free speech also. He made the point that you should be able to defend yourself against hecklers, much like a comedian must be able to deal with people that boo their act during a show. I think the main point is that disruption should not prevent the speech of others, but disruption in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing.

Those that walk around thinking the issue has a simple solution, probably have not thought about it much, in my opinion. I think the Constitution is always about edge cases, this is an edge case, and I believe this is the very reason we have a Bill of Rights. However, I dislike the groups that invite the likes of far-right elements claiming it is purely based on free speech because I've never seen them invite fools preaching Hotepism and other ridiculous Black Israelite-type garbage... although that would be quite the panel.
 
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elanor

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I'm rather fond of this idea from Alligator Brewing Co. for dealing with Spencer and his ilk.

DMZPJpfWAAAhynn.jpg:large
 
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JackRT

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I'm rather fond of this idea from Alligator Brewing Co. for dealing with Spencer and his ilk.

DMZPJpfWAAAhynn.jpg:large

Thak you! That's a wonderful approach. This is absolutely Canadian.
 
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rambot

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Thak you! That's a wonderful approach. This is absolutely Canadian.
Despite an initial guffaw, I feel kind of honoured you said that!

What a FANTASTIC idea. I hope they have put the notice up around campus.
 
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Liza B.

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They're reportedly spending lots of $$$ for security, all to protect a worthless Nazi's life.

I'm just wondering what it's going to take before people start...you know...blaming actual Nazis for the trouble they cause. We've already had one death at their hands in Charlottesville, VA, and you still have people performing Olympics-level gymnastics feats to somehow spin that as Heather Heyer's fault or to blame antifa.

These people have never hidden what they are or what they believe. They've openly threatened synagogues, chanted "Jews will not replace us", and proudly marched under swastika banners. I know it's tough to accept that white supremacy is on the rise in this country, but we need to stop blaming the people who oppose Nazis (antifa) for what Nazis do.
Ringo

Interesting. And sad.

Like the end of Animal Farm, eh? Where in the end you can't tell anyone apart. Your life is worthless because you think that, no, your life is worthless because you think the other. And oink oink go we all.

(Hint: Once you start thinking of life in these terms, especially when everyone who disagrees is labeled a "white supremacist", we're in big trouble. But hey, I already knew that.)
 
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Hank77

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especially when everyone who disagrees is labeled a "white supremacist"
If one says they are a white supremacist, or they sympathize with white supremacist ideology, they just might be a white supremacist.
 
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Rion

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If one says they are a white supremacist, or they sympathize with white supremacist ideology, they just might be a white supremacist.

@Ringo84 supports and glorifies Antifa. Antifa considers anyone to the right of Marx as being a Nazi or a Nazi Supporter. This is something Ringo apparently agrees with as he took posts from @Ana the Ist and put them on images of Neo-Nazis, just because Ana disagrees with supporting Antifa.
 
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SummerMadness

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Are we yet again seeing an attempt to deflect from a topic about white supremacists and make it not about white supremacists? The topic is a story about a self-avowed white supremacist. The mental gymnastics to change the topic from white supremacy does nothing but make one look like a white supremacist or sympathetic to that ideology.
 
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Ringo84

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Interesting. And sad.

Like the end of Animal Farm, eh? Where in the end you can't tell anyone apart. Your life is worthless because you think that, no, your life is worthless because you think the other. And oink oink go we all.

(Hint: Once you start thinking of life in these terms, especially when everyone who disagrees is labeled a "white supremacist", we're in big trouble. But hey, I already knew that.)

That would be a horrible thing to believe about someone.....if I had actually said them.

Next time, please engage the real Ringo84 and not the dummy made of straw that you set up to knock down. It saves us all a lot of time.
Ringo
 
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Rion

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Are we yet again seeing an attempt to deflect from a topic about white supremacists and make it not about white supremacists? The topic is a story about a self-avowed white supremacist. The mental gymnastics to change the topic from white supremacy does nothing but make one look like a white supremacist or sympathetic to that ideology.

Maybe you should bring it up to the person who started discussing Antifa?
 
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Liza B.

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That would be a horrible thing to believe about someone.....if I had actually said them.

Next time, please engage the real Ringo84 and not the dummy made of straw that you set up to knock down. It saves us all a lot of time.
Ringo

You did not say, and I quote directly, "To protect a worthless Nazi's life"?

Note the context was security to protect someone's life. Listen, I think racism and Naziism is vile and disgusting. But if we label people as "worthless" because they hold vile and disgusting ideologies, are we better than they are?

I think the best way to view the situation--the Biblical way, not my way--is that we are all made in the image of God, and therefore NOT "worthless", but indeed invaluable. Some people go horribly awry in disgusting and evil ways. But that does not make them worthless, does it?
 
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SummerMadness

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It's just another view...

3 arrested after shooting following white nationalist speech

Neo-Nazis are no different than ISIL. They have attacked, murdered, committed acts of terrorism in order to fulfill their desire for a nation that is racially "pure." They are only helped by the people attempting to treat their ideology as simply a view like a favorite pizza topping that is on par with any other views.
 
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variant

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I think the best way to view the situation--the Biblical way, not my way--is that we are all made in the image of God, and therefore NOT "worthless", but indeed invaluable. Some people go horribly awry in disgusting and evil ways. But that does not make them worthless, does it?

You can value peoples basic humanity without valuing their hate.
 
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