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An interesting chiasm.

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Freth, Mar 26, 2021.

  1. Freth

    Freth Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I thought I would post a chiasm to pique some more interest in the subject. This one I find to be compelling. I left the middle blank in case others might be interested in filling in the rest.

    Creation
    Second Coming
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021
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  2. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Age isn't a number. It's a three lettered word. Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Earth time never ends so that is incorrect.

    Would suggest:

    Earth time is eternal (Revelation 21:1-22:5)
     
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  3. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Thanks for the inspired chiasm.

    The blank spot is clearly reserved for Jesus.

    So how about 'King set on throne on holy hill of Zion.'
     
  4. tdidymas

    tdidymas Newbie

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    Does this really classify as a chiasm? I thought a chiasm was structured in the same text by adjacent phrases or sentences.
     
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  5. Freth

    Freth Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I knew someone would point this out. No more time for sin. Time ends for sinful man and current state of creation. The earth goes through massive upheaval at the second coming, making it uninhabitable. Satan is the only one left on the earth during the thousand year reign of Jesus. Then the heaven and earth are made anew. Of course time doesn't stop. It wasn't meant that way.
     
  6. Freth

    Freth Well-Known Member Supporter

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    *nods*

    I was thinking there was much more than one sentence to fill in the blank. Many more events that could be placed within the blank area. I stopped at day four of creation on purpose, to see if anyone will attempt to fill in those events.
     
  7. Freth

    Freth Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There are chiasms layered throughout the Bible. Some of them span verses, some span whole chapters, some span whole books. This one just happens to be the beginning and end events that match up as a chiasm. It doesn't have to be adjacent phrases or sentences.

    Here's an example (you'll have to scroll to see this one):

    Revelation 17:1 to 18:10

    A.(1) And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

    B. (2) With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

    C. (3) So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    D.(4) And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,

    E. having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: (5) And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. (6) And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus:

    F.(7) and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel?

    G.

    I will tell thee the mystery of the woman,

    (i) and of the beast that carrieth her,

    (ii) which hath the seven heads

    (iii) and ten horns.

    (i) (8) The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    (ii) (9) And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. (10) And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. (11) And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

    (iii) (12) And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. (13) These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

    H. (14) These shall make war with the Lamb,and the Lamb shall overcome them:for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings:and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

    G’.

    (15) And he saith unto me,

    The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. (16) And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. (17) For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. (18) And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

    F’. (18:1) And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. (2) And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen,is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit,and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. (3) For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication,and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her,and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

    E’.(4) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. (5) For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. (6) Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

    D’.(7) How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
    so much torment and sorrow give her:

    C’. for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. (8) Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

    B’. (9) And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
    when they shall see the smoke of her burning, (10) Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city!

    A’. for in one hour is thy judgment come.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021
  8. philadelphos

    philadelphos Sydney

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    This project has everything, tho pity it's NAB, NRSV, NJB... You're welcome.

    Literary structure (chiasm, chiasmus) of the Bible
     
  9. tdidymas

    tdidymas Newbie

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    This looks like quite a novel structure. It just appears to me that if anyone looks for a certain thing in scripture, they're likely to find it. Sort of like the "signature of God" idea (finding hidden messages in the text by skipping letters). I just don't see the value in it, other than "wow, it looks miraculous!" It's the reason why I never got into chiasms.
     
  10. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    Many of the books of the Bible have complex chiastic structures, such as Genesis, which is one giant chiasm that is composed of 81 smaller chiasm. If we take those 81 chiasms and divide them in halves, thirds, fourths, fifths, sixths, eights, ninths, tenths, or eighteens, then each part of those fractions will also form its own chiasm. For example, the disaster of Noah's Flood with there being too much water mirrors the disaster of Joseph's famine of a disaster of there being too little water, which also mirrors the famine of when Abraham went down to Egypt in a different section. All of the books of Moses contain this sort of pattern as well as the four Gospels and a number of other books, such as the book of Luke being composed of 145 chiasms with the same fractions, but adds twelfths and twenty-fourths. I recommend this site that has a index to help track where someone is in this pattern of chiasms: Patterns Of Life Bible

    Chiasms allow the author to give some commentary, such as by putting an emphasis as what is at the center of a chiasm, kind of like bold or italics, plus portions of text that mirror the same though help us to correctly translate them and understand the theme of what the author wants us to understand. Furthermore, the book ends of a chiasm act kind of like paragraphs for what is intended to be understood as a whole section of text. Furthermore, the centers of two chiasm can also provide commentary on each other, so this sort of pattern allows the author to put in a lot of layered information in a small amount of space.
     
  11. tdidymas

    tdidymas Newbie

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    Sounds to me like straining at a gnat.
     
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