An Index of SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) Errors

[BelleC]

Yes--we know that---however--

Mat_14:5 And when he would have put him to death, he feared the multitude, because they counted him as a prophet.
Mat_21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.
Mat_11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
Mat_13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
Luk_7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.
Luk_24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
Joh_4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
Joh_9:17 They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet.

The gospel writers are quoting what people at the time said about Jesus. Kind of like "man on the street" statements on the news. It is an insight but doesn't give the whole story. Each of those statements were made by the people around at the time of His ministry before they knew who he really was. This is before His resurrection which proved Jesus to be far more than a prophet.

 

[mmksparbud]

The gospel writers are quoting what people at the time said about Jesus. Kind of like "man on the street" statements on the news. It is an insight but doesn't give the whole story. Each of those statements were made by the people around at the time of His ministry before they knew who he really was. This is before His resurrection which proved Jesus to be far more than a prophet.

Like I said---WE know that. It's obvious that until some were convinced otherwise, He was thought of as a prophet at the time. And some of those verses is Jesus calling Himself a prophet plus the one that says
Luk_7:26 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet.

 

[BelleC]

Like I said---WE know that. It's obvious that until some were convinced otherwise, He was thought of as a prophet at the time. And some of those verses is Jesus calling Himself a prophet plus the one that says
Luk_7:26 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet.

We who? Is there a mouse in your pocket? You know that but there are others in this thread which may not.

 

[mmksparbud]

OK---I just meant we Christians. Otherwise, we would not be Christians.

 

[BelleC]

OK---I just meant we Christians. Otherwise, we would not be Christians.

Lol, I was being a smart alleck

Seriously though, I wanted to be sure that Happy Camper understands it too.

 

[SAAN]

It's funny to me. These "ridiculous" doctrines are ones I still understand best and somewhat agree with, even as a former SDA. I agree with them as good principles for living not as laws to be enforced. Mainstream Adventists treat them this way too, although it seems in every congregation there is the one member who thinks they are laws. There are solid, practical reasons for each of these teachings.

Veganism is for health, to treat your body as a temple of the Holy Spirit. It is a reason why SDA's are the longest living group in the US, one of the " blue zone" groups. It is also a means of alleviating suffering. If you can teach and encourage someone suffering from obesity, high blood pressure, arthritis, or type II diabetes to adopt a whole food, vegan diet that appeals to American tastes you might relieve them of a dependence on medication and save their life. They might be more likely to listen to you on spiritual things when their physical selves feel good. How many times did Jesus first heal a person's body to reach their soul in the gospel? This is the same diet Orthodox Christians follow when fasting, which is almost 50% of the year!

On dancing, how much of the current dance music elevates you spiritually? Do you feel close to God in a dance club or are you stirring up lusts best left alone? Ditto on worldly music and movies. Once those things go into your mind you can't unlisten or unsee them. That beat and lyrics will pop into your mind when you least want them to.

Jewelry is not a good use of the means God gives us overall. People spend money that could be put toward owning a home, getting out of debt and building a new life, the poor, or furthering God's kingdom on things like engagement rings. And nowadays the same can be said for spending on tattoos.

No makeup is about staying modest, humble, pure of heart, letting your inner beauty shine through. It is about bringing the focus on Jesus not yourself. Plus, Adventist aren't no makeup but rather not showy makeup. Be happy with what God gave you and don't draw on a new face. And wouldn't you know it, every day another of those cosmetic ingredients gets listed as carcinogenic.

I don't necessarily do all these things but I understand them and agree with them.

Valid points, but many Vegans still have a bunch of health issues due to all the process foods they eat. Turkey bacon is pretty much a ironed hot dog. And when you are eating soy this and soy that and fake chicken/beef or anything else,it its just over processed foods.

As your dancing, that is where the fruit of the spirit comes into play. IF you are a follower of Christ, you wont be doing vulgar dances and listening to vulgar lyrics. I was at a wedding in which the brides father was SDA and said SDA's dont dance, so she had to cancel the father daughter dance AND the grooms dance with his mother because it would have been super ackward to have the groom dance and not the bride dance when the brides father was right there.
Always remember David danced out of his clothes for God, so there is NOTHING wrong with dancing as long as it doesnt get vulgar.

There is nothing wrong with jewelry as they wore jewelry in the bible days too. I do agree wedding rings are a sham in which people spends thousands on a ring & rock and has next to no resale value if it were resold 1 week later, but it is something that is supposedly for life, but they are still overprices. As for tattoos, people should not be wasting money to get their skin inked, but that is another topic itself.

As for make up, im all for females showing their natural beauty and makeup should only be to enhance beauty, and not make the person beautiful.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Lol, I was being a smart alleck

Seriously though, I wanted to be sure that Happy Camper understands it too.

I understood it a long time ago

You posted "I'm not the one following a new prophet and ignoring the biblical understanding of millennia of devout Christians born pre-1844"

There is scriptural evidence that what I believe is biblical,
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

 

[BelleC]

I understood it a long time ago

You posted "I'm not the one following a new prophet and ignoring the biblical understanding of millennia of devout Christians born pre-1844"

There is scriptural evidence that what I believe is biblical,
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

John 15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

Mark 14:29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[f] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[g] There is no commandment greater than these.”

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

What was written and engraved in stones that was glorious? Which glory was to be done away?

Concerning the "spirit of prophecy" the verse itself tells you what this is. It is the testimony of Jesus. It is given to all believers through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

1 John 5:9 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

 

[Commander Xenophon]

Christ's resurrection made things new; in western Christianity the idea of "8th day" is a symbol of the new beginning for mankind; almost a new or recreation for mankind.

It is most common in western liturgical Churches for our baptismal fonts to express this symbolism by having 8 sides; a few examples:

Beautiful. It may interest you to know this practice is not confined to the west; the Baptistry of the Hagia Sophia, which the Ottomans desecrated by converting it into the tomb of two Sultans* , which was a large, separate building designed with adult baptisms on a large scale in mind as the Byzantine Empire expanded and converted more people, also was octagonal in shape.

I believe I have seen octagonal fonts on rare occasions in Eastern churches, where a fixed font exists. The octagon is also a recurring motif in Coptic woodcarvings, ensconcing crosses, and in the pendatives of the domes of Orthodox churches

*What could be a worse example of the Abomination of Desolation and a greater insult to our faith then to convert the structure wherein millions received new life into the housing for the decomposing remains of two evil men who persecuted our faith and who are, excepting the possibility of a universal salvation or an act of special divine mercy, very likely headed towards the second death of eternal torment?

If ever Christendom should recover Istanbul and the Great Church, I believe that it is only our respect for the dead and the Golden Rule that will more likely result in this structure being left undisturbed and a replica constructed, than the Sultans entombed therein being disinterred and thrown into the Bosphorus.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Beautiful. It may interest you to know this practice is not confined to the west; the Baptistry of the Hagia Sophia, which the Ottomans desecrated by converting it into the tomb of two Sultans* , which was a large, separate building designed with adult baptisms on a large scale in mind as the Byzantine Empire expanded and converted more people, also was octagonal in shape.

I believe I have seen octagonal fonts on rare occasions in Eastern churches, where a fixed font exists. The octagon is also a recurring motif in Coptic woodcarvings, ensconcing crosses, and in the pendatives of the domes of Orthodox churches

*What could be a worse example of the Abomination of Desolation and a greater insult to our faith then to convert the structure wherein millions received new life into the housing for the decomposing remains of two evil men who persecuted our faith and who are, excepting the possibility of a universal salvation or an act of special divine mercy, very likely headed towards the second death of eternal torment?

If ever Christendom should recover Istanbul and the Great Church, I believe that it is only our respect for the dead and the Golden Rule that will more likely result in this structure being left undisturbed and a replica constructed, than the Sultans entombed therein being disinterred and thrown into the Bosphorus.

Good chance on the last day, when we are all raised from the dead, our Lord may well say to those two sultans "wrong place at the wrong time eh boys?".

 

[Basil the Great]

I am not going to address any SDA errors. Rather, I wonder if we all might have a valuable lesson to learn from the Adventists? I recall a television news report from a year or so ago about a city in California which has a large Adventist community. It seems that this town has an unusually high number of elderly citizens above age 90 and the reason offered is that the SDA community there emphasizes eating little or no meat. Perhaps we all should do the same if we wish to live a long life?

 

[Dale]

I am not going to address any SDA errors. Rather, I wonder if we all might have a valuable lesson to learn from the Adventists? I recall a television news report from a year or so ago about a city in California which has a large Adventist community. It seems that this town has an unusually high number of elderly citizens above age 90 and the reason offered is that the SDA community there emphasizes eating little or no meat. Perhaps we all should do the same if we wish to live a long life?

Do you know that these over 90's lived there all their life?
Or that they are SDA's who adhere to the anti-meat philosphy?

Isn't it rather strange that SDA's are very Old Testament oriented, and the OT sacrificial system was based on sacrificing lambs and other animals at the Temple? Animals were sacrificed because they are edible and common foods of the time.

 

[tall73]

There are a couple of things that still need to be edited in your list.

• St. Michael and Jesus Christ are the same person.

This is held by some Adventists, and as Ubuntu indicated, usually does not mean that they think Jesus is an angel. As he also noted it is not a fundamental belief of the church. It is actually not something a lot of Adventists emphasize anymore, and quite a few don't even know about the notion, but was more common previously.

An "investigative judgement" began in 1849

As East Coast Remnant noted this should read 1844.

https://www.adventist.org/fileadmin...rticles/official-statements/28Beliefs-Web.pdf

From the fundamental belief #24
In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the most holy place of the earthly
sanctuary. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing ofthe ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement.

• The "outpouring of prophecy" refers not so much to Pentecost as to her

They definitely hold that Joel applies to Acts as well. I do not see this one as valid. I am assuming what brought this up was the notion of the "latter rain".

The following is a quote from Ellen White in the book, The Acts of the Apostles:

It is true that in the time of the end, when God’s work in the earth is closing, the earnest efforts put forth by consecrated believers under the guidance of the Holy Spirit are to be accompanied by special tokens of divine favor. Under the figure of the early and the latter rain, that falls in Eastern lands at seedtime and harvest, the Hebrew prophets foretold the bestowal of spiritual grace in extraordinary measure upon God’s church. The outpouring of the Spirit in the days of the apostles was the beginning of the early, or former, rain, and glorious was the result. To the end of time the presence of the Spirit is to abide with the true church. {AA 54.2}
But near the close of earth’s harvest, a special bestowal of spiritual grace is promised to prepare the church for the coming of the Son of man. This outpouring of the Spirit is likened to the falling of the latter rain; and it is for this added power that Christians are to send their petitions to the Lord of the harvest “in the time of the latter rain.” In response, “the Lord shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain.” “He will cause to come down ... the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain,” Zechariah 10:1; Joel 2:23. {AA 55.1}

 

[mmksparbud]

Do you know that these over 90's lived there all their life?
Or that they are SDA's who adhere to the anti-meat philosphy?

Isn't it rather strange that SDA's are very Old Testament oriented, and the OT sacrificial system was based on sacrificing lambs and other animals at the Temple? Animals were sacrificed because they are edible and common foods of the time.

We are bible oriented, which includes the OT, which, is what the NT is based on and which all the 1st Christians were converted by as the NT had not yet been written and it was the only thing that Jesus and the disciples had.
It has been established by many studies, that the SDA that have been in it the longest and have been vegetarian the longest, also have had the best health and are the longest lived. My aunt lived to just over 100, Born and raised SDA, her daughter is now 87, married at around 70 to a man 10 years older then her, also SDA. They just got back from a trip to Washington. At 97 he still gets around pretty good. My father (my aunts brother) died at 80 a total mess inside and out and the only thing he did was not eat pork and shellfish and not smoke or drink. Her sister died at 80, suffering greatly from COPD for years and she too only kept away from pork and alcohol, but she smoked. I, on the other hand, am 65, on disability, in a wheel chair, diabetic, have fibromyalgia, degenerative discs in lower back and neck--and can barely get out my back door! I was vegetarian for only a few years in my life and those were the best and healthiest years. I am not married to an SDA --I was out of the church for over 25 years---I never smoked, I did drink some. When I came back I just stayed to the clean meats. My stepmother was 94( born and raised SDA) when she died (she had fallen and broke a hip and told no one, she fell again a couple years later, and that is when they discovered the rebroken hip. I can't even imagine the pain she must have gone through but kept it to herself. She would have lived much longer if not for those 2 falls----that and she was married to my father for over 45 years!! That would shorten anybody's life! Though he knew the bible backwards and forwards, he was quite an evil man.

 

[tall73]

Do you know that these over 90's lived there all their life?
Or that they are SDA's who adhere to the anti-meat philosphy?

Isn't it rather strange that SDA's are very Old Testament oriented, and the OT sacrificial system was based on sacrificing lambs and other animals at the Temple? Animals were sacrificed because they are edible and common foods of the time.

You can read an overview of the three Adventist health studies here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventist_Health_Studies

For the most recent study here is the breakdown of the participants:
http://publichealth.llu.edu/adventist-health-studies/findings/findings-ahs-2

Dietary Status of Study Members:

• 8% are vegan (No red meat, fish, poultry, dairy or eggs)
• 28% are lacto-ovo vegetarian (Consume milk and/or eggs, but no red meat, fish or poultry)
• 10% are pesco-vegetarian (Eat fish, milk and eggs but no red meat or poultry)
• 6% are semi-vegetarian (Eat red meat, poultry and fish less than once per week)
• 48% are non-vegetarian (Eat red meat, poultry, fish, milk and eggs more than once a week)

 

[BelleC]

You can read an overview of the three Adventist health studies here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventist_Health_Studies

For the most recent study here is the breakdown of the participants:
http://publichealth.llu.edu/adventist-health-studies/findings/findings-ahs-2

Dietary Status of Study Members:

• 8% are vegan (No red meat, fish, poultry, dairy or eggs)
• 28% are lacto-ovo vegetarian (Consume milk and/or eggs, but no red meat, fish or poultry)
• 10% are pesco-vegetarian (Eat fish, milk and eggs but no red meat or poultry)
• 6% are semi-vegetarian (Eat red meat, poultry and fish less than once per week)
• 48% are non-vegetarian (Eat red meat, poultry, fish, milk and eggs more than once a week)

The breakdown is interesting. According to the "Blue Zones" book the longest lived in the group are the pesto-vegetarian (which do not always include milk and eggs) followed by vegans. Also, it is pointed out in the book that groups, such as Loma Linda SDA's, that form "blue zones" of long lived, healthy people share other things in common not just a plant based diet. Strong communities, physical activity, faith, a purpose in life all play a strong role too. However, all the blue zone groups follow an overwhelmingly plant based, not necessarily vegan, diet.

 

[BelleC]

Do you know that these over 90's lived there all their life?
Or that they are SDA's who adhere to the anti-meat philosphy?

Isn't it rather strange that SDA's are very Old Testament oriented, and the OT sacrificial system was based on sacrificing lambs and other animals at the Temple? Animals were sacrificed because they are edible and common foods of the time.

The OT orientation is not strange if you consider that they believe it all points to Jesus. They believe that God is not random when He asks things of us and He was not random when He commanded things of the Isrealites. For example, rather than looking at just the ceremonial aspects of clean and unclean meats they believe God was protecting the Isrealites from eating the meat of scavengers that consume really gross things that may contribute to disease. Things like trichinosis in pork.

When you look at the list of people it was forbidden to sleep with in the OT we now think, of course brother and sister sleeping together or close cousins leads to really bad genetic problems. God was protecting them from something they had no way of knowing about. It's about the nature of God, that His law was meant to protect and, ultimately, point people toward Christ.

Sacrificing animals was supposed to help the Isrealites realize the cost and penalty (death) of sin and point to the perfect Passover Lamb who takes away the sin of the world.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The OT orientation is not strange if you consider that they believe it all points to Jesus. They believe that God is not random when He asks things of us and He was not random when He commanded things of the Isrealites. For example, rather than looking at just the ceremonial aspects of clean and unclean meats they believe God was protecting the Isrealites from eating the meat of scavengers that consume really gross things that may contribute to disease. Things like trichinosis in pork.

When you look at the list of people it was forbidden to sleep with in the OT we now think, of course brother and sister sleeping together or close cousins leads to really bad genetic problems. God was protecting them from something they had no way of knowing about. It's about the nature of God, that His law was meant to protect and, ultimately, point people toward Christ.

Sacrificing animals was supposed to help the Isrealites realize the cost and penalty (death) of sin and point to the perfect Passover Lamb who takes away the sin of the world.

This is all well and good and true as it has been given to us through the Bible. However, it is hardly justification to assert that Gentiles are part and parcel of the Sinaitic covenant, is it?

 

[BelleC]

This is all well and good and true as it has been given to us through the Bible. However, it is hardly justification to assert that Gentiles are part and parcel of the Sinaitic covenant, is it?

I am no longer an SDA, haven't been in some time, but when I was I never heard or learned any teaching that indicated a belief that Gentiles are part of the Sinaitic covenant. They believe in salvation by God's grace alone. A whole new covenant. Except for the Sabbath, which they believe is a moral Law like the rest of the Ten Commandments, things like the dietary laws or alcohol prohibition fall under things that are not unlawful or sinful but not beneficial. Alcohol is avoided not just because it is considered unhealthy by them but because it could be a stumbling block to a brother or sister in Christ with a weakness toward alcoholism.

Jesus spent a large portion of His earthly ministry healing the sick. SDA's look at that and believe it is because as humans our physical condition affects the mental and spiritual condition of a person. So following those laws and teaching others to do the same is meant to be a merciful things to alleviate the suffering of people with many modern day illnesses thereby opening them up to listen to spiritual teaching. Not eating pork saves no one in and of itself but if you save someone from dying from heart disease, diabetes, or cancer by changing their diet they might be open to hear what you have to say about Jesus.

 

[BelleC]

Of course I said all that above and it is "true" from an official teaching standpoint. But things get a lot murkier on the inside. On the inside, things that were "not beneficial" quickly become considered sinful because members not living by that standard are not living by the "light given to them." SDA speak for "now that you know something is unhealthy for you you are sinning by not treating your body as a temple of the Holy Spirit." It not just pork and alcohol but spices like black pepper and cinnamon, coffee, tea, shellfish, and baking powder are on the no-no list for the SDA purist. Some of these things I still avoid, some I don't. Had coffee, a hot dog, and a glass of wine today.