An honest question

[timothyu]

Were the scriptures withheld from the masses for centuries because they posed a stumbling block to Christianity itself?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Here is an interesting series about the reformers and how scriptures came to light to the masses.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Were the scriptures withheld from the masses for centuries because they posed a stumbling block to Christianity itself?

People were largely illiterate for most of history, so there's that.

 

[disciple Clint]

Were the scriptures withheld from the masses for centuries because they posed a stumbling block to Christianity itself?

No they were not intentionally withheld, books were rare, many people did not read, that changed over time

 

[timothyu]

Here is an interesting series about the reformers and how scriptures came to light to the masses.

Thanks, but did the Reformers take into consideration scripture for instance states that Jesus was originally a disciple of John where John was the teacher Jesus first went to, or that John first produced the Lord's prayer. That might tip the anointed one scales.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Were the scriptures withheld from the masses for centuries because they posed a stumbling block to Christianity itself?

I believe controling the narrative was the motivation behind keeping belivers ignorant. Regardless of illiteracy, there have always been a few good men and women who read straight out of the scriptures with the ability to teach truth. Blessings.

 

[bling]

The Bible is not what people need; people need Jesus.
The Bible is a tool for the Christian mainly, the indwelling Holy Spirit is a much more important tool.
People need what those first 12 apostles needed, time with Christ, have Christ listen to them, have Christ answer their questions, have Christ mentor them, have Christ Love on them, have Christ show them how to live, Have Christ teach them and have Christ correct them with Love. And that is what has always been available to the nonbeliever through Christ living in and through mature Christians.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Cost of a hand written Bible would cost many years wages. Remember that until the Gutenberg press, everything was copied by hand.
Gutenberg is believed to have printed 180 Bibles, available through pre-order only. The average price for one Bible is believed to have been 30 guilder, equaling three years wages for a clerk.

Literacy rate until 1820 even in Europe was only up to 20%.
In 1820, less than 20% of the world's population was literate, and this group was heavily concentrated in Western Europe and the Western Offshoots. Nowadays, levels of literacy are close to 100% almost everywhere, with Africa being the most significant exception (at 64%).

So your average person is going to have to save for many years to get a copy of a book he can't read?

Education since 1820

Education provides many direct and indirect benefits to people’s well-being. This chapter relies upon two indicators to describe educational inequalities around the globe since 1820: literacy rates and years of schooling. These indicators are based ...

www.oecd-ilibrary.org

LibGuides: History of the Book: The Age of Gutenberg

This guide is designed to help you understand the historical roots of print publications, ranging from prehistory to modern day printing.

guides.highpoint.edu

 

[timothyu]

The Bible is not what people need; people need Jesus.

Yet Christianity focuses on the man and not His message of the Kingdom, a culture we are to follow that runs contrary to the culture of man.

 

[timothyu]

So your average person is going to have to save for many years to get a copy of a book he can't read?

This is where the Reformation came in. Churches began to read the scriptures to people rather than insist they follow ritual.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

This is where the Reformation came in. Churches began to read the scriptures to people rather than insist they follow ritual.

I'm Eastern Orthodox, what Reformation?

I'm a tonsured Orthodox Psalti / Cantor / Reader since 2005. Readers were entrusted with reading the Scriptures and the first mention is in the 2nd century by Justin Martyr. We're still responsible for any readings, songs, and at times, we might be the entire congregation.

The celebrated Apology of Justin, in describing the Divine Liturgy, proclaims: “when the Reader concludes the reading of the apostolic or prophetic writings, then the president speaks to the assembly”.

The Reader in the Orthodox Church • Orthodox Life

Have you ever wondered what, exactly, the reader in your parish does? What his responsibilities and duties consist of? A seminary graduate and tonsured reader answers these questions while elucidating the historical foundation of this high office.

orthodoxlife.org

The Ordination for a reader dating to the 4th Century, Apostolic Constitutions reads

Ordain a reader by laying thy hands upon him, and pray unto God, and say: “O Eternal God, Who art plenteous in mercy and compassions, Who hast made manifest the constitution of the world by Thy operations therein, and keepest the number of Thine elect, do Thou also now look down upon Thy servant, who is to be entrusted to read Thy Holy Scriptures to Thy people, and give him Thy Holy Spirit, the prophetic Spirit. Thou Who didst instruct Edras Thy servant to read Thy laws to the people, do Thou now also at our prayers instruct Thy servant, and grant that he may without blame perfect the work committed to him, and thereby be declared worthy of an higher degree, through Christ, with Whom glory and worship be to Thee and the Holy Spirit for ever. Amen”.
13

 

[timothyu]

I believe controling the narrative was the motivation behind keeping belivers ignorant. Regardless of illiteracy, there have always been a few good men and women who read straight out of the scriptures with the ability to teach truth. Blessings.

Backwards Thinking

The Adversary doesn't have to be smart to deal with humans. We are willing sheep out for self. The Kingdom operates on the principle that we should care for each other as we would be cared for by others in times of need. The world operates on...

www.christianforums.com

 

[timothyu]

Readers were entrusted with reading the Scriptures and the first mention is in the 2nd century by Justin Martyr. We're still responsible for any readings, songs, and at times, we might be the entire congregation.

Informative and useful. A friend of mine is an Orthodox priest and he tells me he must read or do sermons on what is sent to him only. He is not allowed to get into the Gospel of the Kingdom for fear of contradiction to the church narrative but he does sneak it in at the odd funeral or wedding.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Informative and useful. A friend of mine is an Orthodox priest and he tells me he must read or do sermons on what is sent to him only. He is not allowed to get into the Gospel of the Kingdom for fear of contradiction to the church narrative but he does sneak it in at the odd funeral or wedding.

Never in 20 years have I heard of that. We do have some feast days where the bishop has sent out an letter to all of the parishes to be read, but otherwise either our priest or our deacon read their own written homily.

 

[timothyu]

Never in 20 years have I heard of that

Good to hear but not so for him. It all comes from head office so to speak.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Good to hear but not so for him. It all comes from head office so to speak.

What jurisdiction and is there some other reason? There are some stepping stones in the priesthood where a newly ordained priest does not hear confessions until he has some years under his belt.

All the seminaries have at least one if not two classes on homiletics. When I was in the Greek Orthodox seminary, seniors gave sermons as part of their last year.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Just to note, this might be why icons were so prominent for so long.

 

[timothyu]

There are some stepping stones in the priesthood where a newly ordained priest does not hear confessions until he has some years under his belt.

No idea.. he's been n the business about 30 years. We talk freely about the Gospel of the Kingdom in private though.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

No idea.. he's been n the business about 30 years. We talk freely about the Gospel of the Kingdom in private though.

I'm really curious about his situation. Considering priests and deacons are taught to give sermons, there must be some extenuating circumstances.

 

[timothyu]

I'm really curious about his situation. Considering priests and deacons are taught to give sermons, there must be some extenuating circumstances.

I see you operate out of the US. Perhaps free enterprise has something to do with it there? Denominations by the same name seem to operate differently beyond the borders. I didn't want to put him on the spot by digging deep nor am I interested in church politics.. But I have found this issue of the Gospel of the Kingdom is shied away from in many denominations perhaps because it is critical of the institutions of man.