An honest question

[LivingWorship]

Hey y'all... we constantly have this debate here on the CCM boards... how often bands should be mentioning Christ and all that... and what makes them a "Christian" band... do they have to mention God to be a Christian band.... and all the rest...

I have come up with this conclusion... in many of these cases, I am sure (through much debate and being open) many a band wishes to glorify God but isn't necessarily writing choir boy songs... but rather songs that are meant for radio. Songs that are out there for the modern generation. They are not songs that necessarily mention God or Jesus but generally seem to reinforce positive themes... and that's ok, there seems to definitely be room for that. I would imagine they would not lead one to salvation directly but could definitely be used in the process.

But from this I have a question... the Bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God at that... so should songs (and I in no way suggest all... just some, a few... whatever or however many you please) be more explicit and "preach" - in an artistic, poetic fashion? Or do they already?

ORRR the converse to this is: Are we expecting too much of our music? Should we be expecting this to be happening over an open Bible rather than a CD player or radio?

Please understand I am asking these honestly, there is no model answer, I would like to know myself. And I apologise if this offends or if this makes no sense... thanks guys, have a great day!

 

[MoreInSorrow]

Here's my view.

Who's to say that the 'hearing comes by the Word of God' part has to be through the vehicle of music? Now, if a band professes that they are in the business of reaching people, and that their main goal is evangelizing, then they should back it up. But I think by and large, we ask far too much of bands with members who claim Christianity. Let them express their faith in a way that is unique to them. It won't fit everyone's criteria of what that individual 'thinks' it should be. That makes it no less valid. Christendom has been guilty for far too long of requiring 'Christian' bands and artists to have a certain JPM, while overlooking all of the excellent music that might not fit comfortably into their mold. I've gotten more out of a song that never mentions Jesus, than out of some of the worship songs that you hear today.

 

[foo-oswald]

Well, LivingWorship, since I'm a musician, and a Christian, I'll chime in here.

I looked up the verse you've quoted. It's Romans 10:17, "The point is, Before you trust, you have to listen. But unless Christ's Word is preached, there's nothing to listen to." (The Message)

Now, I'll agree with what MIS said: "Who's to say that the 'hearing comes by the Word of God' part has to be through the vehicle of music?"

Matthew 28:19 says, "Go out and train everyone you meet, far and near, in this way of life, marking them by baptism in the threefold name: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. 20Then instruct them in the practice of all I have commanded you. I'll be with you as you do this, day after day after day, right up to the end of the age."(The Message) That is The Great Commission. We all accept this responsibility when we choose to become Followers of Christ.

The key part of the verse is "train everyone you meet". The Church has been telling us that this means everyone who passes in front of our face, which is what has led to the reprehensible practice of church-goers handing out those stupid, cleverly-worded tracts to people on the streets. IMO, that is a joke, at best!

In actuality, it takes time to train someone in the Jesus Way. The passage above makes that perfectly clear, no matter what translation one reads it from.

My point is this: It's wrong for any Believer to say of another Believer, "More evidence of your Faith should be available through your occupational day-to-day."

I've given several examples of this in other threads in this forum dealing with this subject, such as the hypothetical Christian painter who paints a beautiful picture- a nature scene, a portrait, or whatever- then writes the words "Jesus Saves" in flourescent orange across the picture. Or the hypothetical chef who sticks a little plastic sign reading "Jesus Saves" into every plate of food he/she prepares.

Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Yet so many believers require musicians who are Christians to do just that. It's a double standard.

The "word of Christ" can be "preached" in different ways. It doesn't have to be an audible, verbal sermon. A Christian musician can "preach" the "word of Christ" by living his/her life the way Jesus lived His. Showing compassion to the poor and the fatherless, for example, or letting the cashier know he/she has given you too much change. Even resisting the urge to flip off the guy who cut you off in traffic, choosing instead to take a deep breath and let it go is "preaching" the "word of Christ", you see?

 

[Sketcher]

As long as people's hearts are in the right place, I don't care. A high "Jesus per minute" rate may be on fire for God preaching or it simply may be a "look how holy I am" sign. I positively hate the latter.

 

[ITBM]

Hey y'all... we constantly have this debate here on the CCM boards... how often bands should be mentioning Christ and all that... and what makes them a "Christian" band... do they have to mention God to be a Christian band.... and all the rest...

I have come up with this conclusion... in many of these cases, I am sure (through much debate and being open) many a band wishes to glorify God but isn't necessarily writing choir boy songs... but rather songs that are meant for radio. Songs that are out there for the modern generation. They are not songs that necessarily mention God or Jesus but generally seem to reinforce positive themes... and that's ok, there seems to definitely be room for that. I would imagine they would not lead one to salvation directly but could definitely be used in the process.

But from this I have a question... the Bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God at that... so should songs (and I in no way suggest all... just some, a few... whatever or however many you please) be more explicit and "preach" - in an artistic, poetic fashion? Or do they already?

ORRR the converse to this is: Are we expecting too much of our music? Should we be expecting this to be happening over an open Bible rather than a CD player or radio?

Please understand I am asking these honestly, there is no model answer, I would like to know myself. And I apologise if this offends or if this makes no sense... thanks guys, have a great day!

1. How many (if at all) times do you have to say Jesus in a song for it to be a Christian song?

I would say that it has to do with the message of the song not how many times you say Jesus. People sign hymns and worship songs without saying Jesus but those songs are OK? It seems unfair to judge a song Christian or not based upon its JPM (Jesus Per Minute).

2. What constitutes a Christian band?

Well, take out the word band and that's the REAL question. The members should all be people who have put their faith in Jesus Christ. They should all be living a life in response to that faith. A hip hop duo called Mars Ill rarely mention Jesus in their songs. However, their songs deal with and question the same things Jesus spoke about. They live a life that testifies to Jesus' love and devotion. They are Christians. Therefore they are a Christian band.

3. Should our music be meant to preach the Gospel to the lost? Or is it meant for enjoyment?

The answer is: YES! It should be both. That's why you have worship bands & artists who build up the body and help us to worship the Lord. But what about those who aren't part of the body? They need the truth too. But just like Christians need to be fed milk before meat so do the lost. They need a lot of grace mixed with some truth. And as they develop a taste for the truth you can give them less grace and they won't spit it back out at you. So we need a spectrum of artists.

Think of it like weening an addict off crack. If they quit cold turkey their body would go into shock and shut down. Sometimes we come to strong with the Gospel to people who aren't ready for it yet. And they shut down and turn the other way. We need to ween them off their sinful life and give them the truth in amounts they can handle.

To quote the LPG (a Christian hip hop duo): Is compromising the Gospel not saying Jesus 300 times in your rhymes? Or is compromising the Gospel putting out a product that is so lacking in professionalism and effort that it turns people away from what you have to say?

Peace & God bless,
Duff

 

[LivingWorship]

Thanks for replies everybody... much wisdom on this thread! Great work everyone.

MIS I'll start with you... what you described was the kind of person I used to be. My expectations of Christian music were a bit unfair and unreasonable. I will say this, I still hold those sort of expectations when it comes to worship songs... songs for the church. But again like you said, music isn't the way it's preached, and of course it is not. I see it as a process to till the soil, prepare the heart to receive the Word in verbal preaching, or indeed through someone's actions and attitudes.

Foo, mate what's wrong with sticking "Jesus Saves" into every plate of food?!?! Just kidding, I think you're right... more of those unrealistic expectations! Especially the time thing... we think someone hears the gospel in sermon or song or whatever and it's like "O they should be saved now..." good point, well mate bro

Twisted, you are true mate. It's all good if the heart is on fire but it could just as easily be a person trying to look righteous, which of course is not true since not one is righteous.

ITBM - yeah I agree with you here mate, music needs to reach people but different music is geared at different people all at different points on their journey to the cross.