An alternate future

[Bob Crowley]

I've often mentioned my (old) Presbyterian pastor whom I learnt a lot from, although he discouraged me. The night my father died he turned up in my room.

I was an atheist at the time, but he predicted I'd become Christian, and as part of that "... You will meet a pastor. You'll think he's great, but all he'll do is to discourage you even more!" (than he had himself).

I met the pastor circa 1982/83. When I was going to leave his church in 1991 (I was getting married and moving away) he admitted he had discouraged me, but as I said I still hold him in high respect. Incidentally he was not an admirer of some of the "last days" stuff which comes out of various (mainly Protestant) personalities in the USA in the main, saying "... they're a bit weird..."

But he had some thoughts on the issue. For one thing he was very firm on the business about no man knows the day or the hour of Christ's return. It could be tomorrow, and it could be 10,000 years down the track. We haven't been told.

However I find that if he thought something would happen it did sooner or later. Several of his predictions have come to pass since he died in 1992, including my becoming Catholic (1997); there would be a lot of priestly pedophile cases after I became Catholic (media from around 2002); my sister would get leukemia and not live very long which happened (2005 aged 45); his own eldest son would have a major health breakdown which was a stroke (1996 or 97); there would be a pandemic (Covid 2020); there would be a second Gulf War as the "... Americans will have had enough of Saddam Hussein and they will get rid of him. But I think they will lose a FEW men the next time (2003); I'd make a silly mistake at work and "they" would use that to get rid of me (1995); etc. These were all predicted and they all happened.

He wasn't an admirer of Zionism, commenting that ".... they've served their purpose ..." (it's up to the Jews to recognise Christ, not the other way round). But he also conjectured "I think He (God) is going to drive us off the planet... I think we'll learn to teleport..."

He died in 1992, and (from Wikipedia) "The first successful experimental quantum teleportation of a photon's polarization was achieved by two independent research groups in 1997", five years later.

It's a long cry from that event to teleporting material objects, and even more so living creatures which have a spirit.

But I think we'll get around that obstacle eventually, although there will most likely be a considerable hiatus between the first inanimate teleportation and the first biological teleportation.

We've moved a long way in space travel since World War II. Robert Goddard's rockets might have gone a couple of hundred feet into the air in the 1920's. The V2's were flying about 250 kms in 1944; NASA landed men on the moon a mere 25 years later; Voyagers 1 and 2 left the solar system in 2012 and 2018 respectively. Of course we now have AI and robotics both of which would be absolutely necessary for a civilisation in space. It's obvious God is letting us do these things, which implies they form part of His plan.

As Dietrich Bonhoeffer might have put it, Man has "Come of Age".

Now suppose his prediction happens, that God does indeed drive us off the planet - what price Jerusalem or for that matter Rome in a civilisation which might be spread through a fair section of the Milky Way? I'm Catholic and I accept the Petrine Chair - Christ was setting up an office and giving the church authority when He declared Peter the Rock.

But I know of no Biblical mandate for Rome to be the "eternal city".

The way politics is going we could well be heading for nuclear wars, and those cities could easily be destroyed.

So I'm not over impressed with hardline pronunciations about either Jerusalem or Rome for that matter. In the end they're just cities.

That's my cold blooded view, and that's what I think.

 

[eleos1954]

I've often mentioned my (old) Presbyterian pastor whom I learnt a lot from, although he discouraged me. The night my father died he turned up in my room.

I was an atheist at the time, but he predicted I'd become Christian, and as part of that "... You will meet a pastor. You'll think he's great, but all he'll do is to discourage you even more!" (than he had himself).

I met the pastor circa 1982/83. When I was going to leave his church in 1991 (I was getting married and moving away) he admitted he had discouraged me, but as I said I still hold him in high respect. Incidentally h was not an admirer of some of the "last days" stuff which comes out of various (mainly Protestant) personalities in the USA in the main, saying "... it's a bit weird..."

But he had some thoughts on the issue. For one thing he was very firm on the business about no man knows the day or the hour of Christ's return. It could be tomorrow, and it could be 10,000 years down the track. We haven't been told.

However I find that if he thought something would happen it did sooner or later. Several of his predictions have come to pass since he died in 1992, including my becoming Catholic (1997); there would be a lot of priestly pedophile cases after I became Catholic (media from around 2002); my sister would get leukemia and not live very long which happened (2005 aged 45); his own eldest son would have a major health breakdown which was a stroke (1996 or 97); there would be a pandemic (Covid 2020); there would be a second Gulf War as the "... Americans will have had enough of Saddam Hussein and they will get rid of him. But I think they will lose a FEW men the next time (2003); I'd make a silly mistake at work and "they" would use that to get rid of me (1995); etc. These were all predicted and they all happened.

He wasn't an admirer of Zionism, commenting that ".... they've served their purpose ..." (it's up to the Jews to recognise Christ, not the other way round). But he also conjectured "I think He (God) is going to drive us off the planet... I think we'll learn to teleport..."

He died in 1992, and (from Wikipedia) "the first successful The first successful experimental quantum teleportation of a photon's polarization was achieved by two independent research groups in 1997", five years later.

It's a long cry from that event to teleporting material objects, and even more so living creatures which have a spirit.

But I think we'll get around that obstacle eventually, although there will most likely be a considerable hiatus between the first inanimate teleportation and the first biological teleportation.

We've moved a long way in space travel since World War II. Robert Goddard's rockets might have gone a couple of hundred feet into the air in the 1920's. The V2's were flying about 250 kms in 1944; and NASA landed men on the moon a mere 25 years later. And of course we now have AI and robotics both of which would be absolutely necessary for a civilisation in space. It's obvious God is letting us do these things, which implies they form part of His plan.

As Dietrich Bonhoeffer might have put it, Man has "Come of Age".

Now suppose his prediction happens, that God does indeed drive us off the planet - what price Jerusalem or for that matter Rome in a civilisation which might be spread through a fair section of the Milky Way? I'm Catholic and I accept the Petrine Chair - Christ was setting up an office and giving the church authority when He declared Peter the Rock.

But I know of no Biblical mandate for Rome to be the "eternal city".

The way politics is going we could well be heading for nuclear wars, and those cities could easily be destroyed.

So I'm not over impressed with hardline pronunciations about either Jerusalem or Rome for that matter. In the end they're just cities.

That's my cold blooded view, and that's what I think.

Just follow the Lamb wherever He goes .... can't go wrong with that ;o)

 

[The Liturgist]

I've often mentioned my (old) Presbyterian pastor whom I learnt a lot from, although he discouraged me. The night my father died he turned up in my room.

I was an atheist at the time, but he predicted I'd become Christian, and as part of that "... You will meet a pastor. You'll think he's great, but all he'll do is to discourage you even more!" (than he had himself).

I met the pastor circa 1982/83. When I was going to leave his church in 1991 (I was getting married and moving away) he admitted he had discouraged me, but as I said I still hold him in high respect. Incidentally he was not an admirer of some of the "last days" stuff which comes out of various (mainly Protestant) personalities in the USA in the main, saying "... they're a bit weird..."

But he had some thoughts on the issue. For one thing he was very firm on the business about no man knows the day or the hour of Christ's return. It could be tomorrow, and it could be 10,000 years down the track. We haven't been told.

However I find that if he thought something would happen it did sooner or later. Several of his predictions have come to pass since he died in 1992, including my becoming Catholic (1997); there would be a lot of priestly pedophile cases after I became Catholic (media from around 2002); my sister would get leukemia and not live very long which happened (2005 aged 45); his own eldest son would have a major health breakdown which was a stroke (1996 or 97); there would be a pandemic (Covid 2020); there would be a second Gulf War as the "... Americans will have had enough of Saddam Hussein and they will get rid of him. But I think they will lose a FEW men the next time (2003); I'd make a silly mistake at work and "they" would use that to get rid of me (1995); etc. These were all predicted and they all happened.

He wasn't an admirer of Zionism, commenting that ".... they've served their purpose ..." (it's up to the Jews to recognise Christ, not the other way round). But he also conjectured "I think He (God) is going to drive us off the planet... I think we'll learn to teleport..."

He died in 1992, and (from Wikipedia) "The first successful experimental quantum teleportation of a photon's polarization was achieved by two independent research groups in 1997", five years later.

It's a long cry from that event to teleporting material objects, and even more so living creatures which have a spirit.

But I think we'll get around that obstacle eventually, although there will most likely be a considerable hiatus between the first inanimate teleportation and the first biological teleportation.

We've moved a long way in space travel since World War II. Robert Goddard's rockets might have gone a couple of hundred feet into the air in the 1920's. The V2's were flying about 250 kms in 1944; NASA landed men on the moon a mere 25 years later; Voyagers 1 and 2 left the solar system in 2012 and 2018 respectively. Of course we now have AI and robotics both of which would be absolutely necessary for a civilisation in space. It's obvious God is letting us do these things, which implies they form part of His plan.

As Dietrich Bonhoeffer might have put it, Man has "Come of Age".

Now suppose his prediction happens, that God does indeed drive us off the planet - what price Jerusalem or for that matter Rome in a civilisation which might be spread through a fair section of the Milky Way? I'm Catholic and I accept the Petrine Chair - Christ was setting up an office and giving the church authority when He declared Peter the Rock.

But I know of no Biblical mandate for Rome to be the "eternal city".

The way politics is going we could well be heading for nuclear wars, and those cities could easily be destroyed.

So I'm not over impressed with hardline pronunciations about either Jerusalem or Rome for that matter. In the end they're just cities.

That's my cold blooded view, and that's what I think.

Regarding quantum teleportation, its actually normal behavior for small particles; what many people don’t understand is that very small particles like protons, electrons and so on do not behave like macroscopic objects. They exhibit wave/particle duality and behave in a probabilistic rather than deterministic manner, so that quantum mechanics actually requires a use of statistics in order to study what is going on with such extremely small objects. The world of the very small is a very strange place but these quantum fluctuations stabilize as we move from the realm of the very small to the macroscopic world humans encounter on a daily basis.

 

[stevevw]

I think as Christians we can know the signs. We may not know the exact time but we can know the signs like the signs of a changing season. I think thats a good analogy because its never a definite time but a all encompassing experience with many smaller signs building and aligning. Just like as a storm comes you can sense the build up in the atmosphere.

It may pass over but I think each time this is building towards the end time and more signs are accumulated. Just like the spirit is showing you signs of the right way to go in life. You may at first not be sure and then it becomes clearer.

I also think like all things in God it is never loud or dramatic or sensational. It is a quiet and gradual revelation that is embodies through time.

I think theres a couple of assumptions in that as we move forward from Christs establish His church on earth we get closer to that end. There maybe be falling away and revivals. But gradually there will be many who do not believe and Christians will be persecuted in Christs name. That implies a cultural change from a Godly one to an unGodly one.

But it may be that what is happening now with many falling away and Christianity becoming less liked that this leads to another revival rather than the end time. This may happen again and again for a long time.

But I also think that each recycling gets closer to the final battle. Almost as though the battle lines are still being drawn and you can sense theres something brewing.

Like theres a growing awareness of what it is people are fighting for. Its not just land, politics, equality but something deeper about how we should order the world. Who is God of the world and over people.

Almost like its a self fullfilling prophesy in that society has made it about good verses evil and so this will become the reality.

If this is where we are at then I am not sure there would be any backing down, its like the battle lines are being drawn and people are signing up to their sides. The dark forces have been building up and are more established, Its certainly an uncertain time and future thats doesn't seem to be creating a heaven on earth or social utopia.