Amillennialism

BABerean2

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If you hold to the Amillennial viewpoint, feel free to post other material to this thread.

If you have questions about the binding of Satan, etc. many of the answers can be found in this presentation.

If you want to post questions, listen to this whole sermon before doing so.


Pro_18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.




.
 

TribulationSigns

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I am amillennialist. Good to see that this thread was created for subjects related to amillennialist doctrine.

The video won't help much since I am profoundly deaf. Even YouTube's auto captioning technology is not perfected yet.
 
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BABerean2

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I am amillennialist. Good to see that this thread was created for subjects related to amillennialist doctrine.

The video won't help much since I am profoundly deaf. Even YouTube's auto captioning technology is not perfected yet.

The book "Kingdom Come" by Dr. Sam Storms is a good resource on this topic.

.
 
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jgr

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I am amillennialist. Good to see that this thread was created for subjects related to amillennialist doctrine.

The video won't help much since I am profoundly deaf. Even YouTube's auto captioning technology is not perfected yet.
Thanks, brother, for your contributions in wisdom and sound doctrine in spite of your challenges.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Thanks, brother, for your contributions in wisdom and sound doctrine in spite of your challenges.

Thank you. But the glory belongs to God since He gave me the gift of teaching/prophesy.

Blessings.
 
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DavidPT

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No non Amil in their right mind is going to sit through and watch a 2 and a half hour video about Amillennialism. I seriously doubt this person in this video would have disclosed things about Amillennialism that most of us don't already know about to begin with. You indicated that before one is to ask questions, they should first watch that video. But I did skim through that video though, which is not exactly the same as watching in it's entirety.

I found the part about the word 'bound' in Revelation 20 interesting, where he then compared with some other Scriptures showing how this word is used figuratively. I don't think anyone would disagree that bound is used in a figurative sense in the NT. But why didn't he also use a passage like the following as well, where it's obvious bound isn't meaning in the figurative sense here?


Mark 6:17 For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife: for he had married her.


Acts 12:6 And when Herod would have brought him forth, the same night Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains: and the keepers before the door kept the prison.


Let's do some comparing of the above.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.



and laid hold upon John----And he laid hold on the dragon

and bound him in prison----and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up


Revelation 20:7 indicates this---- Satan shall be loosed out of his prison

As you can see then, bound can also be used in the literal sense. John was literally laid hold upon at the time, and literally cast into a prison and literally bound there.


We're told the very same things happen to satan as well. He too is laid hold upon, he too is bound and cast into a prison.

No one would take the sense figuratively in John's case, as per Mark 6:17, so why should one take the sense figuratively in satan's case? Just because he is a spirit being, that doesn't mean he can't be literally bound and cast into somewhere. He obviously gets cast into the LOF eventually. He obviously never gets out of there. If that doesn't prove he can be cast into somewhere and held there, regardless that he is a spirit being, then nothing does.
 
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TribulationSigns

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I found the part about the word 'bound' in Revelation 20 interesting, where he then compared with some other Scriptures showing how this word is used figuratively.

Really, let me quiz you on this verse:

Mat 12:28-29
[28] But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
[29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

1.) Who is the strong man?
2.) What does the strong man's house represent?
3.) What do the strong man's goods represent?
4.) Who is one stronger than the strong man, enough to bind him?
5.) Finally, when did the strong man have to be bind at in order to have his house spoiled?

If you get all answers right, then it actually applies to the binding of Satan of Revelation 20, that is if you receive it!
 
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DavidPT

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Really, let me quiz you on this verse:

Mat 12:28-29
[28] But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
[29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

1.) Who is the strong man?
2.) What does the strong man's house represent?
3.) What do the strong man's goods represent?
4.) Who is one stronger than the strong man, enough to bind him?
5.) Finally, when did the strong man have to be bind at in order to have his house spoiled?

If you get all answers right, then it actually applies to the binding of Satan of Revelation 20, that is if you receive it!

But the problem there though, Amils typically place the thousand year binding of satan as of the cross, or at least soon after, depending on which Amil you might be speaking with at the time. When Jesus said the above, these things were already the case before the time of the cross. No Amil that I have encountered claims satan was already bound a thousand years when Jesus said those things at that time.
So why think this somehow connects with satan being bound a thousand years?
 
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TribulationSigns

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But the problem there though, Amils typically place the thousand year binding of satan as of the cross, or at least soon after, depending on which Amil you might be speaking with at the time.

Refuse to answer the questions, eh? No, you need to do this first before making some lame strawmen about the Amils. Finish this quiz, bud.

Mat 12:28-29

[28] But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
[29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

1.) Who is the strong man?
2.) What does the strong man's house represent?
3.) What do the strong man's goods represent?
4.) Who is one stronger than the strong man, enough to bind him?
5.) Finally, when did the strong man have to be bind at in order to have his house spoiled?

If you get all answers right, then it actually applies to the binding of Satan of Revelation 20, that
is if you receive it!
 
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BABerean2

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No non Amil in their right mind is going to sit through and watch a 2 and a half hour video about Amillennialism. I seriously doubt this person in this video would have disclosed things about Amillennialism that most of us don't already know about to begin with. You indicated that before one is to ask questions, they should first watch that video. But I did skim through that video though, which is not exactly the same as watching in it's entirety.

By your own statement above you have just disqualified yourself from commenting on this thread.

Either listen to the whole sermon, or go somewhere else.

If you are just here to bash the Amillennial perspective, go start your own thread.

.
 
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Riberra

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If you have questions about the binding of Satan, etc.
What is the Amil interpretation of the 42 months reign of the Beast mentioned in Revelation 13 ?

Do you take the 42 months mentioned literally ?

Who are the Saints who will be overtaken by the Beast ?

For whom Revelation 14:9-13 Have been written ?
Revelation 14:9-13
9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand, 10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
 
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DavidPT

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By your own statement above you have just disqualified yourself from commenting on this thread.

Either listen to the whole sermon, or go somewhere else.

If you are just here to bash the Amillennial perspective, go start your own thread.

.

Show me where I'm bashing the Amil position in this thread. I'm trying to have a mature discussion about it instead. I actually like discussing this with TribulationSigns like I have been. Regardless that I'm not seeing it his way, he knows how to have an honest and open discussion about these things. Can't help but respect someone such as that, regardless that I might disagree with them about some things.

And so what, at least I was being honest when I indicated that non Amils would see no need to sit through 2 and 1/2 of that video. Maybe someone less familiar with Amil might, I don't know, but some of us have been familiar with Amil doctrine for at least 10 years now, though maybe some, even longer than that. And something else I would like to point out, even if I wanted to watch the entire video, not all of us might have unlimited bandwidth to where we could just do things like that. You're being unreasonable by insisting one MUST watch this 2 and 1/2 hour video before they can participate in this thread.
 
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BABerean2

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What is the Amil interpretation of the 42 months reign of the Beast mentioned in Revelation 13 ?

Do you take the 42 months mentioned literally ?

Who are the Saints who will be overtaken by the Beast ?

For whom Revelation 14:9-13 Have been written ?
Revelation 14:9-13
9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand, 10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Did you listen to the entire sermon found in the opening post?

.
 
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Riberra

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Did you listen to the entire sermon found in the opening post?
As you know it English is not my native language,so listening a long video not in my native language is more heavy than just reading a text that you can write in answer for these little 4 questions ... i am interested to know what is the Amill view.
 
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BABerean2

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Dr. Sam Storms presents the Dispensational Pretribulational Premillennial perspective.
He is a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary, which teaches this viewpoint.
Dr. Storms rejected the teaching of the seminary before he graduated and adopted the Amillennial viewpoint.
His book "Kingdom Come" is an excellent resource on this topic.



.
 
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TribulationSigns

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I actually like discussing this with TribulationSigns like I have been. Regardless that I'm not seeing it his way, he knows how to have an honest and open discussion about these things.

Really? Then try to answer the questions that I have asked you several times lately that you avoid answering. Why?

Mat 12:28-29
[28] But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
[29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

1.) Who is the strong man?
2.) What does the strong man's house represent?
3.) What do the strong man's goods represent?
4.) Who is one stronger than the strong man, enough to bind him?
5.) Finally, when did the strong man have to be bind at in order to have his house spoiled?

If you get all answers right, then it actually applies to the binding of Satan of Revelation 20, that is if you receive it!
 
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TribulationSigns

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What is the Amil interpretation of the 42 months reign of the Beast mentioned in Revelation 13? Do you take the 42 months mentioned literally ?

Many reasons it is not literal. The best of which is that Revelation is not a book to be taken literally, especially numbers. Let check with the Scripture:

Rev 11:1-2
[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Rev 13:2-5
[2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
[4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
[5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Look at the context. The court is not literal, the Temple is not literal, the measuring is not literal, the 2 candlesticks and Olive trees are not literal, the 2 witnesses are not literal, the fire from their mouths is not literal, their death in the street is not literal, the thousand two hundred and threescore days they prophesy is not literal, nor the sackcloth they are clothed in. So we see a pattern here in Revelation?

Just as the 1000 years Satan is bound is not literal, or the 1000 years we reign with Christ. So it would be out of character and out of context, for the 42 months to turn up as literal. The holy city they tread under foot is not literal, so neither is the 42 months they do it.

You may retort, "Why Not?" Well, "Why Not" is not a biblical argument for 42 months being taken literally. I could just as well ask, "why not" the number 1000 years of Revelation being literal, or why not God having 7 literal Spirits, or why not the 1260 days the Woman is in the wilderness literal? ...the list of "why nots" could be endless! But the answer is less vague, as it is because the rest of scripture when taken in context, in conjunction and in agreement with it, precludes it. The thousand years Satan was bound, according to scripture, precludes it being literal. Unless you think Satan was loosed in 1033 A.D. Yes, I know, millions of people don't believe it's spiritual and will swear it is literal, but what has a personal opinion have to do with truth?

Psalms 51:6
  • "Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom."
Truth is not something we have by taking all the numbers in scripture very literally, it is something given of the Spirit. Think about it. I don't presume to teach anyone God's 7 Spirits are not 7 literal ones, the 1000 years Satan was bound are not literal, 42 months treading down of the Holy Temple are not literal or 1260 days the woman is in the wilderness are not literal. That's God's work, not mine.

So, when you ask, why not the number 42. If the spirit through the study of the word doesn't tell you, I cannot presume to.

Do you know what a double minded man is? It is a man who is led about with every wind of doctrine, vacillating from one system to another, is unstable and has no firm footing. On the other hand, the man whose foundation and authority is the word of God, and who studies to show himself approved a workman, is a man not needing to be ashamed. A double mind is a double spirit, and thus in confusion and not loyalty to either. In other words, unstable. If you think scripture is easy to understand, you deceive yourself. But, the good news is that it is Spiritually discerned. , 3, 7, 10, 42, 100 1260, 1290, et'al.

2nd Peter 3:16
  • "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
All a man can do is bear witness to the word that man might see God's ways are not our ways. But that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways, is a given. Just as truth is Spiritually discerned. If you want to know why the 42 months are not literal, compare the timing of when it is mentioned with what must take place then, while understanding that Revelation is not (I repeat, NOT) a book where numbers are normally to be taken literally. ...else only 144,000 of all the earth would be saved. If you don't believe that, then you don't believe in the false doctrine of consistent literalism.

Who are the Saints who will be overtaken by the Beast ?

Rev 11:7
[7] And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev 13:6-8
[6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The saints are the Christians who hold the testimony of Truth. In the time of the end, when Satan is loosened and given power to overcome the testimony of Christians and silence (kill) them. In this way, the professed Christians who do not love the truth will be deceived by false prophets and christs to believe lie BECAUSE the truth has been silenced in the church. This is what God was talking about.

For whom Revelation 14:9-13 Have been written ?
Revelation 14:9-13
9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand, 10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

The professed Christians who do not have the seal of God (Revelation 9), so they are the ones who do not love the truth (and silenced the truthful testimony of the Saints). They are the one who have worship the beast (body of false propehts and christs like Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, etc.) and their doctrines (images or likeness). They take the mark of the beast to show that they are owned by the beast by having same mind (forehead) or do the will (right hand).

12 Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Patience because it is a time of great tribulation FOR THE ELECT during that time, because it is thejudgment of God upon unfaithful church when they will "see" the abomiantion of desolation spoke of by Daniel the prophet, to flee from her.
 
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DavidPT

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Really? Then try to answer the questions that I have asked you several times lately that you avoid answering. Why?

Mat 12:28-29
[28] But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
[29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

1.) Who is the strong man?
2.) What does the strong man's house represent?
3.) What do the strong man's goods represent?
4.) Who is one stronger than the strong man, enough to bind him?
5.) Finally, when did the strong man have to be bind at in order to have his house spoiled?

If you get all answers right, then it actually applies to the binding of Satan of Revelation 20, that is if you receive it!

I don't deny that the strong man is likely meaning satan. But so what? Like I indicated, these things were already a fact before satan gets bound a thousand years, that assuming he is bound at the cross as many Amils tend to conclude. How can there be a connection then? The context in Revelation 20 has to do with not being able to deceive the nations any more. What you need to demonstrate, assuming you are correct, is how in the above that you submitted, that this is the same as the nations no longer being deceived.

If you can't prove what you are asserting, then quit asserting it. It's on you to prove these things, not me. I'm not the one claiming these things.
 
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BABerean2

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I don't deny that the strong man is likely meaning satan. But so what? Like I indicated, these things were already a fact before satan gets bound a thousand years, that assuming he is bound at the cross as many Amils tend to conclude. How can there be a connection then? The context in Revelation 20 has to do with not being able to deceive the nations any more. What you need to demonstrate, assuming you are correct, is how in the above that you submitted, that this is the same as the nations no longer being deceived.

If you can't prove what you are asserting, then quit asserting it. It's on you to prove these things, not me. I'm not the one claiming these things.

How many nations were given God's Word before the first century?

How many nations have missionaries now visited with God's Word?

My own local church body is now involved in a fundraiser to help take the Gospel to an area in Africa. As a matter of fact, we had a meeting last night on that subject.


.
 
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