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Amil, Premil explained with Diagrams

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Christian Gedge, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Active Member

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    There are a lot of topics discussing the 2 most popular systems of eschatology: Amillennialism and Premillennialism. I thought it might be useful to look at the subject with diagrams. Of course, each system has variations. My Premil diagram shows the posttrib variation. (The modern ‘pretrib - premil’ places the ‘rapture’ in front of the tribulation)


    The main end-time events are depicted with simple icons. For example, the purple arrow represents the rapture. (‘catching away’ if you prefer) The throne icon represents judgement.


    OK, Premil diagram coming up:
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Active Member

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    OK, Amill diagram coming up: Sorry that you need to click the link. I can't seem to get it inline.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
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  3. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Two errors.

    The sheep and goats judgment is not at the second coming, it is at the GWTJ.

    You also have Satan loosed after the Mill but is placed within the Mill's timeline.
     
  4. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Active Member

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    Most Pre-mill believers put the 'Sheep and Goat' judgement at the second coming. A-mill believers consider it to be the same judgement (just another name) as the 'Great White Throne.'
     
  5. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not that I have seen. The goats aren't cast into the LOF at the second coming so if anyone thought that they would be wrong.

    Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
     
  6. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    You cannot have a judgment of the dead without a resurrection of the dead.
    The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

    ..................................

    In context...

    Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
    Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
  7. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    The Bible itself proves there is no literal, FUTURE, earthly millennium. The "evidence" is in the apostolic eschatological doctrine that prohibits any view of the "millennium" that portrays it as a future, literal, earthly epoch. A simple examination of the NT epistles shows that there is no future historical "thousand-years" period. We know this with certainty, for the apostles explicitly identified the precise timing of the resurrection, the judgment, and the New Heaven/Earth -- they all occur at the coming of Jesus Christ, thus proving that there is no literal "thousand years" that separates these events out over time.

    (1) The resurrection occurs at the coming of Christ (1 Cor 15:23)

    (2) The judgment occurs at the coming of Christ (2 Tim 4:1; Rev 11:15-18)

    (3) The "New Heavens/Earth" occurs at the coming of Christ -- i.e., the "thief's coming," the "day of the Lord" (2 Pet 3:10/1 Thess 5:2)

    These key eschatological events all occur at the precice moment of the coming of Jesus Christ. THEREFORE, as the apostles themselves understood, there is no literal, historic millennium separating them.
     
  8. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Active Member

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    Do you see a 2nd coming, and judgement, in the future Parousia?
     
  9. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I know. This is talking about the dead in Christ being judged at the second coming as well as the living saints being rewarded. "the rest of the dead" are judged a thousand years later when the dead who are not in Christ are resurrected and judged.
     
  10. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    I see A coming and Judgement in the future, as spelled out in the creeds... but no matter how you slice it, it will not be #2 in chronology of all of Christ's post ascension "Comings".
     
  11. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Where do you see A parousia and THE parousia in Revelation? Do you divide Matthew 24 and Revelation into 2 separate comings/parousias?

    2 "Parousias" according to Partial Preterism......

    Partial Preterism at PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism

    70ad:
    A coming (parousia) of Christ
    A day of the Lord
    A judgment
    The end of the Jewish Age
    (Source: R.C. Sproul, Last Days)

    Still future:
    The Coming (parousia)
    of Christ
    The Day of the Lord
    The Resurrection of the dead
    The Rapture of the living
    The (final) Judgment
    The end of history
    ===========================
    https://www.preteristarchive.com/?s=parousia
     
  12. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Active Member

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    Post ascension comings? I presume you are referring to the pre-mill view with one judgement at the second coming and another judgement after the millennium?

    In that case, I probably agree with you. I'm Amil.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Do you believe the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?

    .
     
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Hello C G.
    Do you view the parousia of Matthew 24 as the same event as the great Day of God in 2 Peter and Reve 16

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

    Matthew 24:3

    Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us! when shall these be?
    and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952>
    and full-end/consummation
    <4930<5055>> of the Age?
    Mark 13
    3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives over against the Temple,
    Peter and James and John and Andrew inquired<1905> of Him according to own
    4 Tell us! when these shall be?
    and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be fully concluded/consummated<4931>.
    Luke 21
    7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher!
    when then shall these be being?
    And what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming<1096>?

    James 5:8
    be ye patient!, also stand-fast the hearts of ye,
    that the parousia <3952> of the Lord has-neared<1448>

    2 Peter 3:12
    - toward excecting and hastening the parousia<3952> of the day of the God, by which heavens, being fired<1448> shall being dissolved/loosed<3089> dissolved, and elements being burned<2741> is being melted<5082>
    ======================
    Do Amills and/or Partial Preterism view the destruction of 1st century Jerusalem in Revelation

    Revelation 16:14
    For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
     
  15. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Nope.. i mean the multiple times Christ Came and comes since the ascension as recorded for us in scripture:
    Christ undeniably "Came" to Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus, and also "Came" to Stephen at His stoning, both events happening after, and in fulfillment of Acts 1:11. Christ also Came in Judgment at the 70AD destruction of Jerusalem, and was the stone that crushed those wicked men to powder, as Matthew 21:33-45 teaches.

    We Catholics also affirm Christ "Comes" to earth every day, and is Bodily "present" with us in the Eucharist, and we, the Church, are Christ's actual physical Body manifest here on earth.

    And of course, scripture plainly teaches that Christ "comes" wherever two or three are gathered in His name and He personally resides in their midst. (Matthew 18:20)

    Those are the multiple, personal, Bodily comings of Christ that have happened and continue to happen since the ascension.
     
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  16. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Active Member

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    Okay, and when I was a little boy I asked Jesus into my heart. But Bro, I think we all understand that Jesus end-time coming refers to the big one with angels, clouds, trumpets etc.

    As for the creeds, the Nicene says, "He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead." That's what we're talking about. As best as I understand, Catholic eschatology views it the same as 'Amillennial' , except they may not use the term. Have you had a look at the diagrams in the O.P?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The following takes some time to watch, but it is the best thing I have ever found regarding Revelation chapter 20.


    Former Dispensationalist Pastor Steve Gregg:



    .
     
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