American Sports Are Letting Down America

Caliban

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Can you speak for all the White folks from the sticks?
Of course not, that was never my point. I speak for myself. Any statistical analysis of political groups will show the likelihood of one demographic voting for a certain political party or candidate. Rural white voters tend to vote Republican in overwhelmingly large numbers; urban blacks vote Democrat. This is why I don't think there is anything surprising about the political conclusions of a group of sports athletes.
 
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Hammster

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Of course not, that was never my point. I speak for myself. Any statistical analysis of political groups will show the likelihood of one demographic voting for a certain political party or candidate. Rural white voters tend to vote Republican in overwhelmingly large numbers; urban blacks vote Democrat. This is why I don't think there is anything surprising about the political conclusions of a group of sports athletes.
Black athletes can’t speak for all blacks in the same way you can’t speak for all whites. So they have nothing to contribute, really. At least not as a whole.
 
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Caliban

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Black athletes can’t speak for all blacks in the same way you can’t speak for all whites. So they have nothing to contribute, really. At least not as a whole.
Agreed--no one is claiming they do.
 
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Hammster

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muichimotsu

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Can you speak for all the White folks from the sticks?
Is anyone saying that? I grew up in the sticks myself in the South and am white, but I still think I have white privilege, which is not about some guaranteed success in life, it's about people giving me the benefit of the doubt more often than if I was black or Hispanic or Asian even.

Privilege does not follow to one particular interpretation that is used in a deceptive fashion to wholesale deny white privilege instead of considering that their preconceptions might be rooted in the very privilege they enjoy.

There are systemic problems that don't care about race necessarily, or are broader in the application even if they disproportionately affect minority communities by that underlying problem of poor race relations and insensitivity that is a soft form of racism, but nonetheless racism in the nominal sense of treating someone unfairly because of appearance and not demonstrable and neutral applications of an investigative standard.


And those problems are about class issues, which should be a concern as well, even if we're talking more an intersectional approach to this, where it isn't just about race, but race is still a factor in terms of inequity (not inequality, that's going to happen anyway, even in an ideal situation because people make stupid decisions with money or bad things happen like the stock market taking a dip with bad investments or a pandemic)

A black kid selling lemonade in a suburban environment versus a white kid doing the same thing in the same context would likely get a different response, though it's not an absolute phenomenon if the community has grown in understanding and isn't falling prey to those underlying issues.

The problem with privilege is that those who benefit from it are likely the first to deny it exists or are unwilling to confront it because they suffer from some problem within society that they want to point to, a relative privation fallacy, as if income inequality and such means that systemic racism and white privilege don't exist or are less important.
 
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muichimotsu

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He didn't claim they spoke for all black people, we can see the posts and context, this is blatantly dishonest to strawman what they said or skew it to make yourself look more rational versus having an honest discussion and ask questions to qualify a position rather than assuming you know all their positions by hasty generalization
 
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muichimotsu

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Black athletes can’t speak for all blacks in the same way you can’t speak for all whites. So they have nothing to contribute, really. At least not as a whole.
All or nothing thinking is indicative of extremist ideals, consciously or otherwise. If you have to polarize things, then it doesn't show any real sense of critical thinking instead of just dismissing opposing ideas like a certain executive in American politics
 
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Gene2memE

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Do you really think these rich athletes deal with racism day in and day out?

Yeah, I do. To quote a former NFL player turned sociologist, the two main things that African Americans deal with in the NFL is pain and racism.

Had racism been an issue, I think we would have heard about this long before the death of Floyd.

There were plenty of people talking about it. It's just now that the chorus has become so loud it cannot be ignored.

Refusing to stand is freedom of speech now?

Sure. It can be. Just like silence can be. Freedom of speech also means that you can't be compelled to express something you don't want to.

Refusing to stand is now in line with the powers that be! Of anything the one who refuses to kneel would be the one actually making a statement

Refusing to kneel is making a statement now?
 
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Ken-1122

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Yeah, I do. To quote a former NFL player turned sociologist, the two main things that African Americans deal with in the NFL is pain and racism.
Was this on the field or off the field.
There were plenty of people talking about it. It's just now that the chorus has become so loud it cannot be ignored.
No, every since the death of floyd, everybody is jumping on the bandwagon claiming they are afraid to walk down the streets for fear of being innocently killed by the police; that it's open season for killing black men. This is absurd and I'm convinced everybody who makes that claim knows it is absurd, yet they say it because playing the victim gives them power.
Sure. It can be. Just like silence can be. Freedom of speech also means that you can't be compelled to express something you don't want to.
How is it speech when you do what everybody else does?
Refusing to kneel is making a statement now?
When you are the only one who refuses to kneel? Yes!
 
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muichimotsu

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Patriotism is not conformity, it's embodying the ideals of a country even if it means the lowest common denominator of faux patriots spouting nationalism and authoritarianism (bordering on fascism) will call you a traitor.

Not standing for the national anthem is protected speech, whether you or any number of Americans calling yourself "patriotic" are offended or not and kneeling is also protected under that. If you make this about the person instead of the ideals behind their actions, you're missing the point of a free market of ideas
 
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Gene2memE

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Was this on the field or off the field.

Is that herring ruby or is it scarlet?

No, every since the death of floyd, everybody is jumping on the bandwagon claiming they are afraid to walk down the streets for fear of being innocently killed by the police; that it's open season for killing black men. This is absurd and I'm convinced everybody who makes that claim knows it is absurd, yet they say it because playing the victim gives them power.

I don't think what you've written bears any resemblance to reality.

What has occurred is that attention has been brought to an existing societal ill.

How is it speech when you do what everybody else does?

Was it free speech when Colin Kapernick did it? Does speech cease to become free when an that speech transitions from a minority position to a majority position?

When you are the only one who refuses to kneel? Yes!

Ah, so refusing to do something IS making a statement now. Thank you for the acknowledgement.
 
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Ken-1122

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Is that herring ruby or is it scarlet?
Neither. Judging from the way he phrased it, it appears the racism he deals with is within the NFL/on the field.
I don't think what you've written bears any resemblance to reality.
What do you base that on?
What has occurred is that attention has been brought to an existing societal ill.
Discussion or race is nothing new, racism has been one of the most talked about subject long before Floyd.
Was it free speech when Colin Kapernick did it?
Yes.
Does speech cease to become free when an that speech transitions from a minority position to a majority position?
When everybody stands with their hand covering their heart and they recite the pledge, though some may be expressing free speech, this expression is indistinguishable from marching in lock step with the powers that be. The same goes when everybody kneels
 
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