American Psychiatric Association suspends "Goldwater Rule" for Trump

camille70

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Barry Goldwater wasn't crazy. He was exceedingly conservative by the standards of his time—and that sometimes got him into trouble. In 1964, when he was running for the Republican presidential nomination, he suggested that maybe it wouldn't be a terrible strategy to use just a few of the atomic bombs in the U.S. arsenal to defoliate forests in North Vietnam and give Americans a fighting edge. Was that extreme? Sure. Crazy? No. And, in the face of furious blowback, Goldwater was smart and sane enough to walk back his very bad idea.

That, however, didn't stop the ironically named Fact magazine from running a sensational story with the provocative headline, "1,189 Psychiatrists Say Goldwater is Psychologically Unfit to Be President!" The story was junk: A questionnaire had been sent to 12,356 psychiatrists, nearly 10,000 of whom had simply ignored it. Of the 2,417 who did respond, a majority of 1,228 pronounced then-Senator Goldwater perfectly sane. The minority said he wasn't — and the minority got the headline. Goldwater, who went on to win the GOP nomination only to get trounced by Lyndon Johnson, later sued the editor of Fact for libel, and he won. In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association responded by adopting what it straightforwardly called the Goldwater Rule, forbidding members from offering a diagnosis of a public figure they have not themselves examined — and even then, not without that person's consent.

But that was then. And then was before the age of Donald Trump. It was before the early-morning tweetstorms, before the febrile conspiracy theories, before the grandiosity and impulsiveness and the serial counter-factualism. It was before, in short, Americans made a man who at least appears unstable to a great many observers the most powerful person in the world. That has led a lot of people to argue that we may have over-learned the lesson of the Goldwater Rule and that it's time to scrap or at least suspend it.

Read the rest @
Go Ahead, Psychiatrists: Diagnose Donald Trump
 

CitizenD

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, he suggested that maybe it wouldn't be a terrible strategy to use just a few of the atomic bombs in the U.S. arsenal to defoliate forests in North Vietnam and give Americans a fighting edge. Was that extreme? Sure. Crazy? No.

A few abombs?

Do you recall why we ended nuclear testing? You should probably look that up an then re evaluate the premise that calling to drop a few nukes to deforest a country is not crazy. (FYI, the radius for that deforestation per nuke would be tiny... hundreds of nukes would be required to deforest any significant area).
 
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camille70

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A few abombs?

Do you recall why we ended nuclear testing? You should probably look that up an then re evaluate the premise that calling to drop a few nukes to deforest a country is not crazy. (FYI, the radius for that deforestation per nuke would be tiny... hundreds of nukes would be required to deforest any significant area).


..LOL... I didn't write it... I'm only sharing... :)
 
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rambot

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could you clarify

with all the different hes it's hard to know which he you are talking about and about what...
The author.
That talking about the mental health of presidents when there are signs of concern is important.
 
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dgiharris

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The author.
That talking about the mental health of presidents when there are signs of concern is important.

agreed.

It feels like we as a nation don't want to address the 800 lb gorilla in the room...

Trump's behavior is cause for concern. It is.

I'm concerned with any adult who shows the inability to restrain their inner id and ego.

Most of us wouldn't hire Trump to work for us and yet somehow we elected him President.
 
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Albion

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But that was then. And then was before the age of Donald Trump. It was before the early-morning tweetstorms, before the febrile conspiracy theories, before the grandiosity and impulsiveness and the serial counter-factualism. It was before, in short, Americans made a man who at least appears unstable to a great many observers the most powerful person in the world. That has led a lot of people to argue that we may have over-learned the lesson of the Goldwater Rule and that it's time to scrap or at least suspend it.

Read the rest @
Go Ahead, Psychiatrists: Diagnose Donald Trump
What a shame. You'd think that these folks would have learned their lesson.
 
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dgiharris

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We hardly take mental health as seriously as we should as a society. It only makes sense we'd end up electing at least one crazy President.

I'm wondering when Trump is just going to completely do something that even Trumpers will take a step back and say, "Man, he's lost it..."

Of course, one could argue he has already done that a dozen times over...
 
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rambot

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What a shame. You'd think that these folks would have learned their lesson.
I think there is a difference between how the goldwater diagnoses came about and the trump one. For example, compare how long each has been desperately trying to insert themselves into the zeitgeist. Who had published more books, hosted more tv programs, and put themselves out more often, displaying a consistency of character beyond simply method acting?

I'm wondering when Trump is just going to completely do something that even Trumpers will take a step back and say, "Man, he's lost it..."

Of course, one could argue he has already done that a dozen times over...
are you serious? I think most rational trump supporters would be loath to accept that they supported someone crazy. In the same way that victims of confidence men somerimes choose to ignore clear signs they are being conned, nobody wanta to think they are that bad a judge of character or someone could do something like that.
 
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Albion

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I think there is a difference between how the goldwater diagnoses came about and the trump one. .

Both are or would be diagnoses that do not involve having examined the patient. That was wrong in the 1960s and it's still wrong, and any professional ought to know it.
 
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dgiharris

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Both are or would be diagnoses that do not involve having examined the patient. That was wrong in the 1960s and it's still wrong, and any professional ought to know it.

I agree with you up to a point.

But isn't there a point we could reach in which we don't have to actually examine him to determine something is wrong with him??? I mean, if Trump ran across the White House lawn naked with a piece of broccoli sticking out of his butt yelling, "I'm gonna fly to the moon on Veggie Power..."

wouldn't you agree that we don't need to actually examine him to determine he has a screw loose.

So then the argument becomes one of mental competency vs observed behavior. What actions has he taken that we can all agree constitutes a slip or degradation in metal competency or signs of mental illness?

I will admit, this is a nebulous subject area that will have some subjectivity to it. Personally, watching his speech at the Boy Scouts Jamboree cemented it for me that he has a screw loose. He speech was so far off the reservation for the event that it was quite frankly embarrassing. That is supposed to be a non-partisan event...
 
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Desk trauma

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But isn't there a point we could reach in which we don't have to actually examine him to determine something is wrong with him??? I mean, if Trump ran across the White House lawn naked with a piece of broccoli sticking out of his butt yelling, "I'm gonna fly to the moon on Veggie Power...
I can't wait.
 
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Albion

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I agree with you up to a point.

But isn't there a point we could reach in which we don't have to actually examine him to determine something is wrong with him???

Possibly. And that's a hypothetical. There absolutely is nothing with this president that justifies moving to anything like we're contemplating with the APA, though. Plus, 80% of what the TrumpHaters who would eagerly jump on the diagnosis bandwagon would be working from are misrepresentations and fake news about him.

He uses catsup I've been informed, so he must be nuts. He kissed his daughter on the cheek when she was younger, so he must be a pedophile. He favors restoring some of the funds to the Defense Department that Obama cut out, so he must be intending to incinerate the world. And I'm not making up such nonsense.
 
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cow451

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Possibly. And that's a hypothetical. There absolutely is nothing with this president that justifies moving to anything like we're contemplating with the APA, though. Plus, 80% of what the TrumpHaters who would eagerly jump on the diagnosis bandwagon would be working from are misrepresentations and fake news about him.

He uses catsup I've been informed, so he must be nuts. He kissed his daughter on the cheek when she was younger, so he must be a pedophile. He favors restoring some of the funds to the Defense Department that Obama cut out, so he must be intending to incinerate the world. And I'm not making up such nonsense.
I don't need a psychiatrist to know the President is cray-cray.
 
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I've just read that this is quasi-fake news. It's the American Psychoanalytic Assn, not the American Psychological Assn. I don't know if there actually is an American Psycholanalytic Association, but I don't think it's the group that took that stand against Senator Goldwater. Not surprisingly, the false report has been circulated by the usual (media) suspects.
 
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cow451

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I've just read that this is quasi-fake news. It's the American Psychoanalytic Assn, not the American Psychological Assn. I don't know if there actually is an American Psycholanalytic Association, but I don't think it's the group that took that stand against Senator Goldwater. Not surprisingly, the false report has been circulated by the usual (media) suspects.
It is a real organization and I still don't need them to know that the President is cray-cray.
 
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